2018 PRO thread

Questions about bike hire abroad and everything light bike related. No off-topic chat please

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LouisN
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by LouisN

Just my opinion, but, ... there is a lot of talk lately about "stuff" that has little to do with PRO racing....
This thread is getting boring because of that...

Louis :)

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

I find the tech/bikes the pros are racing more interesting than the dope they are using, yet the doping aspect gets discussed far more in this thread. But it’s still all pro racing related, so to each their own. No one is preventing anyone from discussing the latest races going on. Not to worry, Le Tour is just around the corner. Things will shift again.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

spdntrxi
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by spdntrxi

LouisN wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:40 pm
Just my opinion, but, ... there is a lot of talk lately about "stuff" that has little to do with PRO racing....
This thread is getting boring because of that...

Louis :)

you could always try to steer it back ?

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LeDuke
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by LeDuke

Calnago wrote:Of course they do, and that’s what long cages and long chains can take care of just fine. But how long are your mountain bikes chainstays? How much clearance is there up front between tire and whatever obstructions might be in the way. What is the BB drop on your mountain bike? I’ll bet all those things are quite different than on the 3T road bike they’re trying to run 1x on. And those differences all contribute to the problems AquaBlue is having. Either in the form of bad chainlines at the margins which adversely affect shifting or clearance issues which adversely affect speed of wheel changes. Also, what is your average cadence on a big technical mountain bike ride. Probably lower than your average cadence on your fast road ride. I seem to have already said all this when you posed the question before about the differences inherent in mtn bikes versus Road Bikes. The two have different requirements in so many respects. Why don’t we just have the entire peloton on mountain bikes then. That would solve everything.
My bike has 435mm chainstays. On a full suspension MTB. Given that it has tires that are 60mm+ taller in diameter (743mm) than those on my road bike (679mm), your argument doesn’t make sense. There are 29er MTBs with and much shorter stays (414mm, for example) that can accommodate the same size tires.



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Wookski
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

LouisN wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:40 pm
Just my opinion, but, ... there is a lot of talk lately about "stuff" that has little to do with PRO racing....
This thread is getting boring because of that...

Louis :)
So are you planning on contributing something more “relevant”...?

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Calnago
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

LeDuke wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:09 am
Calnago wrote:Of course they do, and that’s what long cages and long chains can take care of just fine. But how long are your mountain bikes chainstays? How much clearance is there up front between tire and whatever obstructions might be in the way. What is the BB drop on your mountain bike? I’ll bet all those things are quite different than on the 3T road bike they’re trying to run 1x on. And those differences all contribute to the problems AquaBlue is having. Either in the form of bad chainlines at the margins which adversely affect shifting or clearance issues which adversely affect speed of wheel changes. Also, what is your average cadence on a big technical mountain bike ride. Probably lower than your average cadence on your fast road ride. I seem to have already said all this when you posed the question before about the differences inherent in mtn bikes versus Road Bikes. The two have different requirements in so many respects. Why don’t we just have the entire peloton on mountain bikes then. That would solve everything.
My bike has 435mm chainstays. On a full suspension MTB. Given that it has tires that are 60mm+ taller in diameter (743mm) than those on my road bike (679mm), your argument doesn’t make sense. There are 29er MTBs with and much shorter stays (414mm, for example) that can accommodate the same size tires.
Makes total sense. Discussing two separate issues, potential for chaindrop and ease of wheel changes. 435mm is a huge chainstay length compared to the 405-415mm of the typical road racing bike. In the context of chainstay length, longer chainstays ease the chainline a lot. Even a couple millimeters can make sometimes make the difference between go and no go when it comes to a good chainline at the extremes. Your 435mm is like 20mm longer than a longish road bike chainstay. The shortest example you come up with is 414mm... which is at the longish end of a road bike chainstay. AquaBlue's chainstays are only 405mm and they wonder why they're having issues? Actually, I think they're fully aware of why they're having issues.

The clearance and BB drop differences between road and mtn bikes have more to do with quick and easy wheel removal verus chainline and the possible resulting chaindrop issues. I've described all this prior but I guess you didn't get it first time around. Maybe a reread if you're really interested is in order.

And lastly, I’ll be damned if I’m going to ever ride a “road bike” with 435mm chainstays. At that point it’s not a road bike anymore, well maybe you can ride it on the road, but that’s about it.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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LeDuke
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by LeDuke

Again: WC XC racers often have much faster wheel changes than what I see happen on the road. So the problem is the personnel, not the equipment. If you can’t change a disc wheel in under 25 seconds, you aren’t good at your job.

Re: chainstays, they are a function of suspension design and desired performance traits, plus mud clearance. On a hardtail, sub-400mm is regularly done by custom builders. On tires ~25-30mm larger in radius than a 25mm road tire. There are 29x3.0 bikes with 415mm chainstays.






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Calnago
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by Calnago

Uh... ok then...
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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LouisN
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by LouisN

Calnago wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:59 pm
I find the tech/bikes the pros are racing more interesting than the dope they are using, yet the doping aspect gets discussed far more in this thread. But it’s still all pro racing related, so to each their own. No one is preventing anyone from discussing the latest races going on. Not to worry, Le Tour is just around the corner. Things will shift again.
You're right, opinions differ, but at the end, lots of blah,blah talk about doping and bike tech,..
Don't forget, before the Tour ( and like you say, a new chapter of the huge novel will start again there...) it's national championships weekend now in many countries :) .

LOuis :)

KWalker
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Location: Bay Area

by KWalker

There just isn't much innovation in road bikes. People rarely take any risk and aren't willing to make mistakes and learn from it. Mountain bikes have undergone some growing pains at times, like when 29ers first came around and handled/rode like giant boats. 1x is another great example as are a billion suspension tech trends, but manufacturers and riders learn and move on. I applaud 3T for even trying and don't trust a tweet by an angry pro to inform us as to what happened when there isn't video evidence. It's pretty easy for people that are emotional to make up parts of narratives that don't happen.

So hopefully we can move the *f##k* on from this circle jerk and find something else for the next few weeks until the Tour.
Don't take me too seriously. The only person that doesn't hate Froome.
Gramz
Failed Custom Bike

Wookski
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by Wookski

Hinault saying the riders should strike if Froome lines up for TdF. Big words again from the almost certain ex doper!

Haydn
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Location: UK

by Haydn

That would make for a good race, just Sky riding around France on their own for 3 weeks ;)

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tymon_tm
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by tymon_tm

spdntrxi wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:07 am
LouisN wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:40 pm
Just my opinion, but, ... there is a lot of talk lately about "stuff" that has little to do with PRO racing....
This thread is getting boring because of that...

Louis :)

you could always try to steer it back ?
exactly. why not, istead if complaining about certain topics, post stuff you feel belongs here :noidea:


re: 1x

I just left my bike at lbs' for a day and got a replacement rig: Focus Paralene 1x :mrgreen: I'm going to clock some kms on her today just for kicks, but the initial feel of SRAM's Apex 1x is not very road-ish. enough for rocking that bike path though...
kkibbler wrote: WW remembers.

Wookski
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:51 am

by Wookski

tymon_tm wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:48 am

I just left my bike at lbs' for a day and got a replacement rig: Focus Paralene 1x :mrgreen: I'm going to clock some kms on her today just for kicks, but the initial feel of SRAM's Apex 1x is not very road-ish. enough for rocking that bike path though...
A guy in our bunch turned up on a paralane last year- he sold it the following week. I think it was because of the threats of throwing it off the nearest cliff :lol:

Rondje
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Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:46 pm
Location: Netherlands

by Rondje

No Caleb Ewan in de TDF. The team says they go all out for Yates, wonder if it has something to do with Ewan's rumored switch to Lotto-Soudal.

by Weenie


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