The wheelbuilding thread

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

Moderator: robbosmans

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The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
USAisDOA
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri May 21, 2021 3:39 pm

by USAisDOA

shimmeD wrote:
Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:14 am
So what happened to the English chap with the bike shop? He used to respond almost to everything. He never read what he typed hence so typo's. Good dude... I forgot his handle. I used to really enjoy reading some of his exasperated responses to some of my off the wall post ideas, most of which worked for me. Einstein of all people stated that you never learned a damn thing if you don't make some mistakes.

So if you're out there Englishmen.. I built a gravel bike aluminum frame last fall mostly to play with discs. And I built triplet on both ends 16 8 front and back. Radial rear left----eight "stoppers", works just fine 😆 enjoy this one englishman.

That was bm0p700f who hangs out at thecycleclinic.uk I think he got sick of coming here, shame that since I enjoy(ed) his posts. :beerchug: to Malcolm.
And yes you're right Malcolm doesn't like weird wheel builds like yours!
Yes I remembered his name later.. Malcolm.

Per quote "weird builds" Mr UK built a get this, 12 hole rear wheel. I remember him whining about it was not a stand-up writer, and broken spokes made its use basically decoration on the wall. I think he weighed about same as me at that time 190 lb.

ChitMANO did allow radio lacing on the front on the right side disc. And if you know anything about a triplet, you might research that a little bit.. the smokes are counterposed on the front wheel left in the case of this front wheel build so everything is working when you apply the brakes.

Same for a radio lacing with lasers on the back left, everything is taking a load when you apply the brakes. And that tension is moved up to the center 1.5 taper. Works just fine.

Am I recommending this lacing pattern? Well.. this is quote wait weenies unquote... So with a little generic petroleum jelly it fits here.

:up:
I believe almost nothing I read and 'hear'

I believe roughly half of what I see with my own eyes.. in person.

I do not carbon.. anything


:nospamhere:

by Weenie


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shimmeD
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: eNZed

by shimmeD

I miss Malcolm too. He did say once that he's affected by dyslexia hence the typos, that imo added charm to his posts of exasperation.
I'm using a rim-brake 16/8 rear with a 25mm tubular Farsport rim on a 'regular' but 16/8 drilled BHS hub. I like it and it performs fine, cavaet being that I'm of slight build not generating huge power by any stretch of imgination.
Less is more.

User avatar
ultimobici
in the industry
Posts: 4456
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Trento, Italia
Contact:

by ultimobici

shimmeD wrote:I miss Malcolm too. He did say once that he's affected by dyslexia hence the typos, that imo added charm to his posts of exasperation.
I'm using a rim-brake 16/8 rear with a 25mm tubular Farsport rim on a 'regular' but 16/8 drilled BHS hub. I like it and it performs fine, cavaet being that I'm of slight build not generating huge power by any stretch of imgination.
Pretty sure posts like the one above yours are the reason many interesting & informative posters no longer frequent WW.

Sad loss.


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User avatar
ultimobici
in the industry
Posts: 4456
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 2:45 pm
Location: Trento, Italia
Contact:

by ultimobici

USAisDOA wrote:Yes I remembered his name later.. Malcolm.

Per quote "weird builds" Mr UK built a get this, 12 hole rear wheel. I remember him whining about it was not a stand-up writer, and broken spokes made its use basically decoration on the wall. I think he weighed about same as me at that time 190 lb.

ChitMANO did allow radio lacing on the front on the right side disc. And if you know anything about a triplet, you might research that a little bit.. the smokes are counterposed on the front wheel left in the case of this front wheel build so everything is working when you apply the brakes.

Same for a radio lacing with lasers on the back left, everything is taking a load when you apply the brakes. And that tension is moved up to the center 1.5 taper. Works just fine.

Am I recommending this lacing pattern? Well.. this is quote wait weenies unquote... So with a little generic petroleum jelly it fits here.

:up:
There’s an old saying that applies here.

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

As far as I can see, Shimano still prohibit radial lacing on all their hubs except for Dura Ace. They must know something you don’t……


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ooo
Posts: 1590
Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 12:59 pm

by ooo

Shimano also offer radial/non-radial 8/16 lacing on 2021 Ultegra WH-R8170 rear wheels and 2017 oem WH-RS770-C30-TL-R12 rear wheels

viewtopic.php?t=167622 - j-bend/straight-pull centerlock hubs/wheels list with 8:16/16:8 and 7:14/14:7 lacing
'

alanyu
Posts: 1499
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:10 pm

by alanyu

berest wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:06 am
Hi there,

ImageImage

Can anybody tell me please, what length should i go for the front wheel, if DT, actually, doesn't produce an Aero Comp spokes in 257mm length? :?:
With rear wheel, everything seems to be more understandable - 260mm and 264mm, am i right? However, wouldn't it be better to go with 266 instead of 264 for the rear, left side, since the Accurate is 265.5 - which is way closer to 266, than 264. Or is it fine cuz i'm using 14mm nipples all around, which is longer option than regular 12mm nipples?

Thank you
Better go down. Spoke will be elongated around 1-1.5 mm under 100 kgf, which DT calculator has considered IIRC. However, spoke will also creep under tension with the time going. You won't like no thread left when you need to retension it 1-2 years later.

woodzyz
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:19 am

by woodzyz

alanyu wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:49 am
berest wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:06 am
Hi there,

ImageImage

Can anybody tell me please, what length should i go for the front wheel, if DT, actually, doesn't produce an Aero Comp spokes in 257mm length? :?:
With rear wheel, everything seems to be more understandable - 260mm and 264mm, am i right? However, wouldn't it be better to go with 266 instead of 264 for the rear, left side, since the Accurate is 265.5 - which is way closer to 266, than 264. Or is it fine cuz i'm using 14mm nipples all around, which is longer option than regular 12mm nipples?

Thank you
Better go down. Spoke will be elongated around 1-1.5 mm under 100 kgf, which DT calculator has considered IIRC. However, spoke will also creep under tension with the time going. You won't like no thread left when you need to retension it 1-2 years later.
Yes better to go down,if you aren't sure about the actual accurate length,go down and use 14mm brass nipple,problem solve

woodzyz
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:19 am

by woodzyz

timeout93 wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:35 pm
Hello there,

could someone double check my (Sapim`s) calculation?

Rim: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4000543987953.html
ERD 588
28 Holes

Hubs: Acros Nineteen XC: https://acros-components.com/en/product ... -hub?c=246clas
Rear straightpull (3x)
Front straightpull (3x and radial)
everything else: https://acros-components.com/media/pdf/ ... ben_DE.pdf

Sapims says:
Front: 291 / 280
Rear: 292 / 269

Attached you can see the inputs I made. I don´t know the inner diameter of the rim or the thickness of it, I just put numbers in so the ERD of 588 fits.

Thanks very much in advance!
BASE ON 14MM external nipple the length should be below
FDS 299
FNDS 278
RDS 297
RNDS 299

Aesch
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:09 pm

by Aesch

I've recently built a set of gravel wheels with Farsports 32wide/36high asymmetric rims, 28H front and rear pillar 1420 spokes/12mm brass nipples on a set of Erase Hubs.(1410grams)
Since this set has impressed me a lot i'm looking to build another pair, to be used as a wider set for my road bike. I'm wondering however if I shouldn't build a set with slightly beefier spokes for the gravelbike and move this set over to the roadbike. any suggestions on where to look/what to look for?
Should i go for Pillar Wing spokes maybe? then the 20 or 21? or CX-Sprint? or it this all too much and should I just get another set of pillar 1420 spokes?
Any ideas and suggestions are welcome!

charirider
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:00 am

by charirider

Deleted
2018 Cannondale SuperSix EVO 2 rim size 56 (raw stripped) 6.9kg
2014 Bridgestone Anchor CX6 Equipe size 55 (cyclocross) 9.8kg

iamraymond
Posts: 622
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:59 am

by iamraymond

I'm searching for a lightweight alloy wheelset for an upcoming rim brake build. I'm 63-65kg and most of my rides include around 1000m of elevation. I'm not a strong rider (FTP = 225w) and love climbing hence the priority on weight. I don't rail down descents and usually take it very conservatively going down hill. I also never sprint. Some of the climbs are quite steep (10% or more) so I'm looking for a good alloy clincher wheelset. I plan to run 28mm GP5000 clinchers with latex tubes so I'd like a rim with a 18mm internal width

Here's what I'm thinking for a build
DT Swiss RR411 rims 20/24
DT Swiss Squorx nipples
Bitex RAF10-RAR9 hubs
Sapim CX Ray spokes

For a build of sub-1400g.

I've been reading previous posts in this thread about the DT Swiss RR411 rim, but they are for heavier riders who need a more robust wheel set. My priority is to build a light and comfortable wheelset.

What are your thoughts about this build?

bobones
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

iamraymond wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:21 am
I'm searching for a lightweight alloy wheelset for an upcoming rim brake build. I'm 63-65kg and most of my rides include around 1000m of elevation. I'm not a strong rider (FTP = 225w) and love climbing hence the priority on weight. I don't rail down descents and usually take it very conservatively going down hill. I also never sprint. Some of the climbs are quite steep (10% or more) so I'm looking for a good alloy clincher wheelset. I plan to run 28mm GP5000 clinchers with latex tubes so I'd like a rim with a 18mm internal width

Here's what I'm thinking for a build
DT Swiss RR411 rims 20/24
DT Swiss Squorx nipples
Bitex RAF10-RAR9 hubs
Sapim CX Ray spokes

For a build of sub-1400g.

I've been reading previous posts in this thread about the DT Swiss RR411 rim, but they are for heavier riders who need a more robust wheel set. My priority is to build a light and comfortable wheelset.

What are your thoughts about this build?
I would be concerned about this combo being a bit too flexy under load. You will notice a lack of stiffness more than a 100 g extra on the weight of the set, so perhaps consider a deeper, heavier rim or 28H on the back. I have used those hubs on a light build (Mavic Open Pro UST 24F/28R with brass nipples that came in at 1380g) and they're pretty decent apart from the tiny 688 bearings in the RAF10 which may require more frequent changing. CX-Rays are great spokes but they're very expensive compared to Lasers, D-Lights and Race, so maybe you don't need them for a shallow wheelset. It's tempting to build the lightest you possibly can, but stiffness should be a consideration; however, you'll never know if they're stiff enough unless you build them!

shimmeD
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: eNZed

by shimmeD

I'm 10kg lighter and own Bitex/Pacenti V2/CX-Ray which is only used for (short) commutes nowadays. Since you can't get Pacenti rims anymore, substitute with Hed the best alloy rims. Kinlin is popular but I've heard that the alloy may be softer. Boyd is another option. Check with November Bicycles who build a fair few alloy wheels.
Less is more.

NickJHP
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:22 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

by NickJHP

alanyu wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:49 am
Better go down. Spoke will be elongated around 1-1.5 mm under 100 kgf, which DT calculator has considered IIRC. However, spoke will also creep under tension with the time going. You won't like no thread left when you need to retension it 1-2 years later.
Not so. I have wheels I built 20 years ago, and when I put my tensiometer on them, the spoke tension hasn't changed from the values I recorded when I finished building and stress relieving the wheel. Absent the rim cracking around the spoke holes, the spokes in a correctly built wheel shouldn't lose tension with use. The yield strength of the stainless steel wire used for spokes is several times the tension that the spokes see in a wheel.

alanyu
Posts: 1499
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:10 pm

by alanyu

NickJHP wrote:
Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:57 am
alanyu wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 8:49 am
Better go down. Spoke will be elongated around 1-1.5 mm under 100 kgf, which DT calculator has considered IIRC. However, spoke will also creep under tension with the time going. You won't like no thread left when you need to retension it 1-2 years later.
Not so. I have wheels I built 20 years ago, and when I put my tensiometer on them, the spoke tension hasn't changed from the values I recorded when I finished building and stress relieving the wheel. Absent the rim cracking around the spoke holes, the spokes in a correctly built wheel shouldn't lose tension with use. The yield strength of the stainless steel wire used for spokes is several times the tension that the spokes see in a wheel.
Creep is not a thing related to yield strength. Solid can creep under the stress within its yield strength with time going. It becomes an issue when people build wheels with skinny butted/aero spokes and less counts (20/21/24), while on a traditional 28-round 2.0 spoke wheel, creep is negligible for years.

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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