Wheelset advice - CarbonBikeKit / Wheelsfar / CRW / Farsports / Deerobust

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Beancouter
Posts: 1170
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:04 pm

by Beancouter

toxin wrote:The C1 hub is made by h-works, same as used on farsports, 8Lien, some of no6 and a bunch of other farsports rebrands. C2 I have no clue.

Non-plus hub's a bit of a headscratcher as the regular version wouldn't fit the wide carbon spokes, only the much worse designed thinner carbon spokes. And there is no reason to make a 24 hole hub if the intention is to use carbon spokes.

The wide spokes look the most like stren, but the picture is pretty bad.
Thank you! You clearly know your stuff!


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bobones
Posts: 1567
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

Beancouter wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2024 3:27 pm
toxin wrote:The C1 hub is made by h-works, same as used on farsports, 8Lien, some of no6 and a bunch of other farsports rebrands. C2 I have no clue.

Non-plus hub's a bit of a headscratcher as the regular version wouldn't fit the wide carbon spokes, only the much worse designed thinner carbon spokes. And there is no reason to make a 24 hole hub if the intention is to use carbon spokes.

The wide spokes look the most like stren, but the picture is pretty bad.
Thank you! You clearly know your stuff!


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Yes, many thanks for your insights @toxin. Given what you know of the current market, what are your personal favourite brands/models of wheels in the 40-60 mm depth range considering value, performance (weight, aero, stability) and reliability?

toxin
Posts: 1467
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:56 pm

by toxin

Phuuh, that a big question to answer, one I don't trust myself to get fully correct.

As far as rim profiles go, I am inferring based on all the data and simulations I've seen but those come from different, but similar profiles. I do plan on doing some cfd on the chinese options in the near future when I'll be building a set for myself.

For full builds:
Light Bicycle probably #1 for customer service and reliability.

CRW for pure performance, not the absolute lightest anymore, but still the best hub and spoke setup. The profiles aren't perfect but the 50/60 should be stable, is tested to be quite fast and the rear rim profile doesn't matter that much so you can put wider tyres on it. Not that great for heavy riders.

Farsports for ease of use, no holes in rim bed, external nipples come at a slight aero penalty, very light. Reliability should be good, but they're not as developed as a company as LB.

XMCarbonspeed are a new, upcoming player. Their offerings aren't quite as mature as others just yet, but they offer a lot of customisation, very light and wide rim options. Very cheap as well. If looking for carbons spokes, would wait for their new hub to become available in the early months next year. Am considering them for a rear wheel myself. Very informative thread on chinertown

If you're interested in steel spokes, Yeoleo's new wheels have pretty sensible rim profiles and are pretty ok priced if you use some discounts floating out there. I don't fully agree with their hub choices, they're good but there's better from the manufacturer of those hubs.

Rim only:
CarbonBikeKits make some very light rims. Would be my current choice for a very light front rim 50mm 360g. If you want the best stability and wide tyres, they make some that imitate the roval clx II front, but even wider. The carbon spokes they use aren't on the level of others. No idea about their realiability or customer service

Ornan also make some light and nicely profiled rims, but their choice of carbon spoke boils down to: do you want slow spokes or heavy hubs? They have a notice on their website that future products will no longer be displayed on their official page and to contact them for info. IDK what that's about, maybe there's more available there. Their 58mm deep, 23mm internal rim would be my current choice for aero at the front. Their 70mm deep, 22, internal rim is one of my considerations for the rear. Again no idea about customer service or reliability.

This isn't fully exhaustive and there are still details I've left out, especially some third party hub choices.

toxin
Posts: 1467
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:56 pm

by toxin

That's for the chinese options. Western would be Scope #1, newmen #2

apr46
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

@toxin, I think the Deerobust Non-Plus option is a custom 20H version of the hub. I think its like10+g heavier as a result.

The Magene Exar ultra wheels have hidden nipples, something they claim to have a patent on and is unique among chinese sellers (and more like the Scope wheels. However, their hub design is heavier and the side entry isnt something I am ready for.

"DFS" is also a brand that has some interesting stuff. I have a set of wheels from them coming in. I will post some more information on them shortly as the wheels should come in today and I should be riding them this weekend. They have some very interesting 25mm IW options including one that has "shoulders" to trip the air like the Roval Rapide and Hunt Sub 50. Unfortunately, they are 35mm wide at the hooks and 37mm total width, making them a tough fit in my own bikes. They can pair that to a 25mm IW 60mm deep profile as well.

toxin
Posts: 1467
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:56 pm

by toxin

Non plus were originally listed as 20 hole, but they changed it to 24 after a few days so idk

Are the dfs rims the same as these? https://www.carbonbikekits.com/carbon-r ... ound-wheel

apr46
Posts: 546
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:46 pm

by apr46

toxin wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2024 7:54 pm
Are the dfs rims the same as these? https://www.carbonbikekits.com/carbon-r ... ound-wheel
Yes. They have more deep options direct though. I don't think the 60mm deep rim I would use for the rear is available from Carbonbikekits, but you could probably ask.

Edit: I also wanted to add that DFS sells a layup for some models that are lighter than the Ultralight from Carbonbikekits.
Last edited by apr46 on Thu Dec 05, 2024 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gloscherrybomb
Posts: 411
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:55 pm

by gloscherrybomb

Good shout on XMCarbonSpeed. Their website doesn't show a lot of what they can do. I got Peter to build me up some crazy value gravel wheels, and when he heard I had bought the Farsports S5/6 he soon had a competitive alternative for those too (at A LOT cheaper price). Definitely worth a conversation if you want a bespoke config.

toxin
Posts: 1467
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:56 pm

by toxin

apr46 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2024 7:21 pm
The Magene Exar ultra wheels have hidden nipples, something they claim to have a patent on and is unique among chinese sellers (and more like the Scope wheels.
Hmm, the only related patent of theirs I found was on the actual hub. I cannot be bothered to read the whole thing to know exactly what about it they're trying to protect, but from skimming it and looking at the drawings, it seems unrelated to rim side attachment.

I took a closer look at their rims and hub and the way they do it is pretty simple though. The threaded bit on the spoke doesn't have a square, nipple-like part, but a series of shallow notches instead. Then you just need a matching tool that can fit through the spoke hole. Wanna say it doesn't seem like an easy thing to patent effectively, but what do I know, there are patents for some incredibly trivial things out there.

Pics of scope
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Beancouter
Posts: 1170
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:04 pm

by Beancouter

More thanks @toxin! Loving this thread …..

On the basis I cant build wheels and don’t have a willing wheel builder, I am limited to pre-built.

Looking at Carbonbikekits, any thoughts on …

40f - 31/24 (360g) - Big hole centre distance if that means anything
45r - 31/24 (380g)

Hubs are RAT-HUBC1; assume they are generic 20/20 (look the same as Farsports / Wheelsfar RD270)

Image


Spokes CSK02 - carbon bladed 3.8mm

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Build weight approx 1,150 +/- 50g - Price ca. $910 shipped (tax included)

Will reach out to XMcarbonspeed on the new hub early next year


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Last edited by Beancouter on Fri Dec 06, 2024 9:00 am, edited 3 times in total.

bobones
Posts: 1567
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

toxin wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2024 5:46 pm
Phuuh, that a big question to answer, one I don't trust myself to get fully correct.
<snip>
This is gold! Many thanks for taking the time to write all this out. And thanks also to other contributors with valuable insights and information.

Beancouter
Posts: 1170
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:04 pm

by Beancouter

Looking increasingly likely that I am going to buy some wheels from CarbonBikeKits. Will be interesting to see how they ride / weigh compared to my Wheelsfar Hyper 30/24 on RD230 + Sapim CX Ray.

The hubs used by CarbonBikeKits look like they are H-works (SR288?). Which I think the same as 9-Velo and, possibly Wheelsfar, albeit they dont list them online anymore).

Rims are 40/45 - 31ext - 24int. Ultralight, Paintless, hooked

The spokes look quite interesting though (I dont know whether they are used elsewhere?). CarbonBikeKits have suggested going for something non-bladed and shared the attached CFD analysis (which they have said I can share on here). If I am honest, not my area of expertise (!) but thought it might be of interest / worthy of comment.

As a footnote, so far, CarbonBikeKits have been excellent - The price looks competitive - keeping my fingers crossed on the quality. [Worth noting I asked for a discount and didn’t get one, other than 2% shown on-line for new customers!].



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Last edited by Beancouter on Tue Dec 10, 2024 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

toxin
Posts: 1467
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2023 5:56 pm

by toxin

That doesn't look like any cx ray cross section I've seen

They show cd and a values, but not cda, which would be the lowest for cx ray here

Idk, I'm not gonna say it's total bullshit, the actual sim pics look legit, but I can't take it at face value.

The carbon spokes could allow for lower spoke count, which might somewhat equalise aero efficiency.

Their bladed carbon spokes (02) aren't the thinnest, but the round section on both end is shorter than most similar spokes. They are also lighter than the 06 spokes, so I don't really see why exactly they wouldn't be the reccommended choice
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Beancouter
Posts: 1170
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:04 pm

by Beancouter

toxin wrote:That doesn't look like any cx ray cross section I've seen

They show cd and a values, but not cda, which would be the lowest for cx ray here

Idk, I'm not gonna say it's total bullshit, the actual sim pics look legit, but I can't take it at face value.

The carbon spokes could allow for lower spoke count, which might somewhat equalise aero efficiency.

Their bladed carbon spokes (02) aren't the thinnest, but the round section on both end is shorter than most similar spokes. They are also lighter than the 06 spokes, so I don't really see why exactly they wouldn't be the reccommended choice
Thanks - might revert to the bladed spokes.


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Beancouter
Posts: 1170
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:04 pm

by Beancouter

I am still going down a rabbit hole on the spokes - It appears as though they are a combination of a steel core with a carbon wrap.

Does anyone know who else uses that tech - I am assuming it’s not proprietary to CBK?

Image


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by Weenie


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