Continental Aero 111

[warthog101]

Well it appears they are also barely keeping up with aero 111 demand at the price they are. Wouldn't it make more sense to sell more of the expensive tyres?
The roadies I know are over it enough to choose the faster tyre.
They all seem to choose the faster wheel. Shallow rims seem a thing of the past here.

[TobinHatesYou]

Well it appears they are also barely keeping up with aero 111 demand at the price they are. Wouldn't it make more sense to sell more of the expensive tyres?
The roadies I know are over it enough to choose the faster tyre.
They all seem to choose the faster wheel. Shallow rims seem a thing of the past here.

CC has sold 19 of the 29mm and 10 of the 26mm in 5 days. I bought two of those 26s. For now supply is outstripping demand. They’re just waiting for the hype around the tires to build.

[warthog101]

Well it appears they are also barely keeping up with aero 111 demand at the price they are. Wouldn't it make more sense to sell more of the expensive tyres?
The roadies I know are over it enough to choose the faster tyre.
They all seem to choose the faster wheel. Shallow rims seem a thing of the past here.

CC has sold 19 of the 29mm and 10 of the 26mm in 5 days. I bought two of those 26s. For now supply is outstripping demand. They’re just waiting for the hype around the tires to build.

The hype is all through the cycling media. It will be enthusiasts who buy them. Most enthusiasts are pretty interested and reasonably informed around what is fast.
Everyone seems pretty aware the S TR is a fast tyre. Word gets around quickly.
Maybe the price is putting a few off and it isn't just me and a handful of others, as on here. Hopefully so, as if they don't sell the price will shift down.

[cyclespeed]

Well it appears they are also barely keeping up with aero 111 demand at the price they are. Wouldn't it make more sense to sell more of the expensive tyres?
The roadies I know are over it enough to choose the faster tyre.
They all seem to choose the faster wheel. Shallow rims seem a thing of the past here.

CC has sold 19 of the 29mm and 10 of the 26mm in 5 days. I bought two of those 26s. For now supply is outstripping demand. They’re just waiting for the hype around the tires to build.

The hype is all through the cycling media. It will be enthusiasts who buy them. Most enthusiasts are pretty interested and reasonably informed around what is fast.
Everyone seems pretty aware the S TR is a fast tyre. Word gets around quickly.
Maybe the price is putting a few off and it isn't just me and a handful of others, as on here. Hopefully so, as if they don't sell the price will shift down.

Indeed. I have (kind of) happily spend 370E on Darimo seat posts and 400 on AX saddles, but I definitely baulk at dropping 120E on a skinny little bike tyre that could puncture in the first few days and be in the bin.

Just for kicks, my Audi RS4 takes 265/35, 20 inch tyres. Yokohama (good brand) sell one for 212 Euros (cheapest Chinese is 128 Euros).......this is a tyre rated for over 1 tonne and 300kmh......!!

[Lina]

Well it appears they are also barely keeping up with aero 111 demand at the price they are. Wouldn't it make more sense to sell more of the expensive tyres?
The roadies I know are over it enough to choose the faster tyre.
They all seem to choose the faster wheel. Shallow rims seem a thing of the past here.

CC has sold 19 of the 29mm and 10 of the 26mm in 5 days. I bought two of those 26s. For now supply is outstripping demand. They’re just waiting for the hype around the tires to build.

The hype is all through the cycling media. It will be enthusiasts who buy them. Most enthusiasts are pretty interested and reasonably informed around what is fast.
Everyone seems pretty aware the S TR is a fast tyre. Word gets around quickly.
Maybe the price is putting a few off and it isn't just me and a handful of others, as on here. Hopefully so, as if they don't sell the price will shift down.

Indeed. I have (kind of) happily spend 370E on Darimo seat posts and 400 on AX saddles, but I definitely baulk at dropping 120E on a skinny little bike tyre that could puncture in the first few days and be in the bin.

Just for kicks, my Audi RS4 takes 265/35, 20 inch tyres. Yokohama (good brand) sell one for 212 Euros (cheapest Chinese is 128 Euros).......this is a tyre rated for over 1 tonne and 300kmh......!!

And how much have they spent optimizing the weight, rolling resistance, puncture protection and aerodynamics of that tire? It's trivial to build a tire that can last on a car. Building a tire that is the lightest possible, but doesn't puncture from the sight of anything but perfectly smooth tarmac, has good rolling resistance and on top of it all is aerodynamic is a whole other process. On a car tire it doesn't matter if you have to spend 100 watts more in rolling resistance and aero at highway speeds or if the tires are a kg heavier, especially if it's an everyday car that never goes on a track. On a bike 10 watts and 100 grams is a lot if you're racing, less so on a commuter bike. But you can get tires to the commuter bike for 15 euros a pop.

[Requiem84]

Did they take the car tire into the windtunnel? .

[justinfoxphotos]

Indeed. I have (kind of) happily spend 370E on Darimo seat posts and 400 on AX saddles, but I definitely baulk at dropping 120E on a skinny little bike tyre that could puncture in the first few days and be in the bin.

Just for kicks, my Audi RS4 takes 265/35, 20 inch tyres. Yokohama (good brand) sell one for 212 Euros (cheapest Chinese is 128 Euros).......this is a tyre rated for over 1 tonne and 300kmh......!!

I've read some bad takes in this thread but this one takes the cake.

What a terrible analogy; for one the Aero 111 is 100 Euro, the car tyres you're comparing it to cost more. Second, you're comparing apples to oranges as no-one in their right mind would put the cheapest Chinese tyres on an RS4 (and the cheapest bicycle tyre on the market costs WAY less).

Since you brought up Yokohama, a brand I have done a fair bit of design and marketing for, and a brand which sponsors the mighty World Time Attack Challenge (WTAC) with a control tyre for the world's fastest race cars (I designed the logo for WTAC) a much more fair comparison would be the Aero 111 vs. Yokohama Advan AO50 race tyre which, "just for kicks" would cost around 2,466 Euro for my Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R race car.

[gloscherrybomb]

Mic drop

[apr46]

Ugh. No. It does represent what the market is willing to pay. We don't know that the price is out of line with the rest of their portfolio with regards to margin.

Are you a consultant by any chance? Do not agree with this.

I am or was. While I brace for the inevitable personal attack that seems to be coming...I should point out that I don't like dynamics that often lead to margins being constrained by a company's operating model, nor do I like that companies usually get broken up when parts of the company outperform others with little regard for how or why the portfolio was built. Exercises like that make the consultants, bankers, and hedge funds a huge lump sum of money and usually end up screwing everyone else. Unfortunately my personal feelings dont make those dynamics any less real.

I wish I knew how to build a table here, but to ground this back into reality here are the prices for the GP5000 range right now

Variant MSRP (USD) Bike24 Price (€ ex. VAT) Competitive Cyclist Price (USD)
GP5000 Clincher $81.95 €49.95 $69.95
GP5000 S TR $95.95 €46.21 $71.96
GP5000 AS TR $99.95 €47.89 $89.95
GP5000 TT TR $109.95 €57.97 $79.95
Aero 111 $120.95 €99.95 $120.95

As you can see, MSRP/RRP is already different for each tire, likely depending on projected sales volume. It's also important to recognize that we are really talking a $10 increase over the TT TR and $25 over the S TR, not double the price.

That said, the discounting of the rest of the range hopefully means the 111 will also see some discounting soon, but we shouldn't be looking at the discounted product vs. another's MSRP and use that price differential to accuse the manufacturer of price gouging.

Well it appears they are also barely keeping up with aero 111 demand at the price they are. Wouldn't it make more sense to sell more of the expensive tyres?
The roadies I know are over it enough to choose the faster tyre.
They all seem to choose the faster wheel. Shallow rims seem a thing of the past here.

Unfortunately, they are unlikely to be able to increase production incrementally and immediately, so the pricing would need to account for the low planned production volume + the additional fixed costs over the gp5000 S TR.

[gurk700]

Don't really care about all the arguing going on about the price here. People here pay (including me) $3000+ for a wheelset when there's amazing ones for sub $1000. Do you REALLY care about a tire that at the very least seems to be an incredible improvement in terms of grip (can't speak for aero) that costs only $30 more?

Also don't forget, Aero 111 is intended as a front tire and will outlast pretty much any thing you put in the rear.

[warthog101]

Indeed. I have (kind of) happily spend 370E on Darimo seat posts and 400 on AX saddles, but I definitely baulk at dropping 120E on a skinny little bike tyre that could puncture in the first few days and be in the bin.

Just for kicks, my Audi RS4 takes 265/35, 20 inch tyres. Yokohama (good brand) sell one for 212 Euros (cheapest Chinese is 128 Euros).......this is a tyre rated for over 1 tonne and 300kmh......!!

I've read some bad takes in this thread but this one takes the cake.

What a terrible analogy; for one the Aero 111 is 100 Euro, the car tyres you're comparing it to cost more. Second, you're comparing apples to oranges as no-one in their right mind would put the cheapest Chinese tyres on an RS4 (and the cheapest bicycle tyre on the market costs WAY less).

Since you brought up Yokohama, a brand I have done a fair bit of design and marketing for, and a brand which sponsors the mighty World Time Attack Challenge (WTAC) with a control tyre for the world's fastest race cars (I designed the logo for WTAC) a much more fair comparison would be the Aero 111 vs. Yokohama Advan AO50 race tyre which, "just for kicks" would cost around 2,466 Euro for my Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R race car.

Yes and no. Compare the development, distribution, warehousing and manufacturing costs. The Conti needed a bit of aero time, but is available in 2 widths and one diameter. The car tyre will be multiples of each.
It is designed to support the weight of a bicycle and rider at much lower speeds.
The car tyre must resist much, much higher forces.
The Conti is a mass produced tyre at lower volumes though. How many will you fit in a shipping container vs the car tyres.

You do make the point that it is marketed to enthusiasts. As you illustrate with the yokohama race tyres, enthusiasts will pay more as they are committed to their passion. The consternation caused by questioning the price on here has also made that clear.

In the debate over pricing in the last couple of days this post hasn't been commented on;

We've done our tunnel test and Crr test on the 111, I think it'll be out Wednesday or Thursday. Aero tested on an AeroCoach Zephyr front wheel (78mm) in a bike (Cervelo P5 disc), a 26mm 111 vs a 25mm Conti 5000 TT and Corsa Pro Speed 26mm - the 111 was better at higher yaw than the TT but similar to the TT overall in terms of aero (the Conti published data was 111 vs the 5000S TR rather than the TT).

It might be that the Zephyr rim has made the tyres all close to each other (as that was the purpose of the rim, to work well with all different types of tyres), but we still saw a stalling of the Corsa Pro Speed at higher yaws which is typical of the wider Vittorias.

If it aint that much better this will moderate the price. If it is I guess the price will remain high for some time yet.

[Jaisen]

Indeed. I have (kind of) happily spend 370E on Darimo seat posts and 400 on AX saddles, but I definitely baulk at dropping 120E on a skinny little bike tyre that could puncture in the first few days and be in the bin.

Just for kicks, my Audi RS4 takes 265/35, 20 inch tyres. Yokohama (good brand) sell one for 212 Euros (cheapest Chinese is 128 Euros).......this is a tyre rated for over 1 tonne and 300kmh......!!

I've read some bad takes in this thread but this one takes the cake.

What a terrible analogy; for one the Aero 111 is 100 Euro, the car tyres you're comparing it to cost more. Second, you're comparing apples to oranges as no-one in their right mind would put the cheapest Chinese tyres on an RS4 (and the cheapest bicycle tyre on the market costs WAY less).

Since you brought up Yokohama, a brand I have done a fair bit of design and marketing for, and a brand which sponsors the mighty World Time Attack Challenge (WTAC) with a control tyre for the world's fastest race cars (I designed the logo for WTAC) a much more fair comparison would be the Aero 111 vs. Yokohama Advan AO50 race tyre which, "just for kicks" would cost around 2,466 Euro for my Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R race car.

Yes and no. Compare the development, distribution, warehousing and manufacturing costs. The Conti needed a bit of aero time, but is available in 2 widths and one diameter. The car tyre will be multiples of each.

Most car tyres are initially released in very few sizes and then the range slowly expands. Take a look at the new Pirelli P Zero Winter 2, it is currently available in very limited range of sizes, especially compared to the previous model. Same applies for Michelin's new Pilot 5 or Pilot Alpine 5, or the new Continental WinterContact, etc.

It is designed to support the weight of a bicycle and rider at much lower speeds.
The car tyre must resist much, much higher forces.

Incorrect, the forces on bicycles are much higher. The pounds per square inch are highest on bicycles as compared to motorcycles or cars. Even the g forces are not really comparable. A high end sports car, like a Porsche 911, might experience up to 1.1g's on the track, your typical touring car maybe 0.9g, yet bicycles can experience up to 1.5g, and for downhill mtb riders sometimes even higher.

[maxim809]

Shotgunning thoughts on the last few pages:

1. Really thankful for everyone avoiding and ignoring personal attacks.

2. The back and forth between both wart/apr with some gib in the middle was especially a good read from all sides. I've actually taken away a more nuanced understanding of pricing, and have even adjusted my views on how I view luxury goods -- both generally speaking as well as in the context of bikes. The table was especially helpful, and... I'll look to see if we can get a table plugin. But in the meantime I've seen people use the [code] [/code] tag combined with lots of Preview button.

3. Btw, I don't think these tires are Luxury category. Seems more Performance category to me. The attributes to luxury are: Extremely high quality, Exclusivity, or Life Experiences. Purpose of luxury is to make the owner feel good while using it, or feel good by enhancing other's perception of you. I suppose if you're that type of cyclist, then maybe some of those luxury boxes can be checked at a personal level. But uh, nobody has told me I look cooler with these tires yet.

4. Dat mic drop tho.

5. Not gonna name names but WHY YOU STIRRING THE POT LINA lol come on. ;P

6. I was actually both excited and fearing last night about Xav's imminent data drop. Something I've been noticing since day 1 is these tires are kinda hard and maybe I just need to wear them in some more, yet this makes me think. What if the data shows this tire isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

I guess I'm prepared for that. Just another day or so.

[justinfoxphotos]

Don't really care about all the arguing going on about the price here.

100% this. It's actually blowing my mind!

Aero 111 is 100 Euro, that's $162 AUD.

Goodyear Vector R SW $150 AUD (111 is only $12 AUD more, can't even buy a McDonalds Big Mac meal with that).

Continental Grand Prix GP5000 S TR $140 AUD
Pirelli P Zero Race TLR RS Tyre $139 AUD

[warthog101]

Indeed. I have (kind of) happily spend 370E on Darimo seat posts and 400 on AX saddles, but I definitely baulk at dropping 120E on a skinny little bike tyre that could puncture in the first few days and be in the bin.

Just for kicks, my Audi RS4 takes 265/35, 20 inch tyres. Yokohama (good brand) sell one for 212 Euros (cheapest Chinese is 128 Euros).......this is a tyre rated for over 1 tonne and 300kmh......!!

I've read some bad takes in this thread but this one takes the cake.

What a terrible analogy; for one the Aero 111 is 100 Euro, the car tyres you're comparing it to cost more. Second, you're comparing apples to oranges as no-one in their right mind would put the cheapest Chinese tyres on an RS4 (and the cheapest bicycle tyre on the market costs WAY less).

Since you brought up Yokohama, a brand I have done a fair bit of design and marketing for, and a brand which sponsors the mighty World Time Attack Challenge (WTAC) with a control tyre for the world's fastest race cars (I designed the logo for WTAC) a much more fair comparison would be the Aero 111 vs. Yokohama Advan AO50 race tyre which, "just for kicks" would cost around 2,466 Euro for my Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R race car.

Yes and no. Compare the development, distribution, warehousing and manufacturing costs. The Conti needed a bit of aero time, but is available in 2 widths and one diameter. The car tyre will be multiples of each.

Most car tyres are initially released in very few sizes and then the range slowly expands. Take a look at the new Pirelli P Zero Winter 2, it is currently available in very limited range of sizes, especially compared to the previous model. Same applies for Michelin's new Pilot 5 or Pilot Alpine 5, or the new Continental WinterContact, etc.

It is designed to support the weight of a bicycle and rider at much lower speeds.
The car tyre must resist much, much higher forces.

Incorrect, the forces on bicycles are much higher. The pounds per square inch are highest on bicycles as compared to motorcycles or cars. Even the g forces are not really comparable. A high end sports car, like a Porsche 911, might experience up to 1.1g's on the track, your typical touring car maybe 0.9g, yet bicycles can experience up to 1.5g, and for downhill mtb riders sometimes even higher.

There will be development and manufacturing costs for all of the different sizes, not to mention storage and distribution.
The car tyre must resist much higher cornering, braking and acceleration forces. 100+ hp through the tyre rather than 2000w. Stopping 1500kg from higher speed. Centripetal force on the tyre and retain shape at a much higher speed. I see the demand placed on the car tyre as much higher.
The cornering force imposed on the car tyre is much greater as the tyre must keep a flat tread on the road surface whilst the cornering force attempts to push it sideways off the rim, and much higher mass so much higher force. As a bike leans the cornering force imposes much less lateral load on the tyre and the mass is a fraction of the car. Yes the tyre is much smaller but that would mean it has a much smaller surface area to resist deformation.
I did physics a long, long time ago however.

With respect to pressure, yes higher pressure on the tyre but that is not not what it was with tubeless.