Carbon Ti hub noise fix.

[Mr.Gib]

This thread from 2020 viewtopic.php?f=3&t=164555&p=1852694#p1852694 discusses a bad creaking noise with Carbon Ti rear hubs. As I have just experienced and fixed this problem on two wheelsets, I figured a thread here in the wheels and tires forum might be helpful to Carbon Ti owners.

This video demonstrates the noise. https://youtu.be/pw5s2bZOkPs (not me or my video)

In every way it resembles a nasty bottom bracket failure. It can be intermittent which makes identification of the source difficult. You might service your bottom bracket and have a couple weeks of silence which can convince you it is a bb problem. To make the problem even more challenging, full disassembly of the hub and serious cleaning, greasing, and lubrication of all surfaces may make no difference. How is it possible that perfect maintenance and fresh lubrication can have no effect on the noise? Further, one hub involved had very low use and showed zero wear on any part.

I am pretty sure that the noise is caused by freehub movement. Apparently, even though the bearings may be in like-new condition, the inner races of the stock bearings are not a tight enough fit on the axle, or more properly, the axle is undersized for the stock bearings. Any pressure on a pedal will pull on the freehub enough to cause some movement that produces noise. No type or amount of grease between the inner races and the axle, or on any other hub surfaces made any difference.

Despite the perfect condition of the stock bearings, I decided to replace them with SKF bearings. I immediately noticed a tighter fit when reinstalling the axle, (though I think it should be tighter still). The noise was gone. I can only conclude that the superior tolerance of the SKF bearings, specifically the smaller diameter inner races, reduced the movement enough to kill the noise.

Disassembly of the second older hub revealed very light wear on the axle at the point of contact with the inner race of the inboard free hub bearing – some of the black anodizing had been worn through to the bare aluminum. SKF bearings installed, and again silence.
So, if you have Carbon Ti hubs and you think your new, freshly greased bottom bracket is making noise, try a different wheelset or consider changing free hub bearings to something high quality like SKF before you tear your bike apart.

A shoutout to the folks at Carbon Ti. They were very responsive to my inquiries, and very professional and friendly throughout the process. They agreed to send at no charge a replacement axle for the newer hub. I also purchased one for the older hub.

[jlok]

Interesting. I thought that they have been using SKF bearings in their hubs. Now I don't find it in hub product page, but their wheels product page states that they use SKF bearings.

[Mr.Gib]

Interesting. I thought that they have been using SKF bearings in their hubs. Now I don't find it in hub product page, but their wheels product page states that they use SKF bearings.

That's what I thought also. But the bearings I removed don't appear to be SKF. I wonder if they use a variety of bearings depending on the sales channel? Retail vs OEM? And are all SKF bearing created equal? My knowledge of bearings is limited. The only thing I know for certain is that the new bearings were tighter on the axle and the noise is gone. Nothing else has changed.

[bobones]

Here's the box for a hub I received for a warranty claim, which advertises that SKF bearings are used. I haven't had any problem with noise and I am really impressed how smooth the bearings are after many a drenching this winter. Hub flange strength, well that's another matter

[Mr.Gib]

It might be that a small number of hubs left the factory with alternate bearings during a supply shortage, or perhaps there was a batch of undersized axles. It is most certainly a very small problem or it would be all over various furums. But for those that are unlucky enough to have the problem, it is a nasty one to sort out. FWIW the seals on the bearings I removed were un-marked and the replacement SKF bearing had markings on the seals. Not sure that is conclusive of anything.

[Pugrot]

Yeah I had same issue (non disc) and it got to the point I had to get a replacement rear axle from Carbon-Ti as even new bearings were a loose fit on the fretted axle.

[Mr.Gib]

It would seem that the design of the Carbon Ti hubs cannot tolerate any slop at all in the bearing axle interface. I think they could be a little more forthcoming with information about this problem. They seem to always respond with advice to follow their video instructions for setting the pre-load which will do nothing to solve this particular problem.

[garage0racing]

Just swapped the freehub bearings, first ride in and the creaking seems to be gone.
The replacements were Enduro, same as the ones that came with the hub.

[Mr.Gib]

A big factor in the noise seems to be undersize axles. The replacement axle I received was a much tighter fit, requiring a mallet to be tapped into place. The old axle would slide out easily by hand. Interestingly, a disassembly after a couple of months to investigate a faint clicking noise showed very light signs of wear on the new axle which suggests the axle material is simply not hard enough for the job - a second critical factor. This grease: https://shop.foghmarine.com/white-teflo ... gKZK_D_BwE has kept things silent for several thousand kms. Note that great care must be taken in combining the hub pre-load with through axle torque to eliminate any side-to-side play without causing the hub to bind when properly secured.

Carbon Ti are light, free spinning, and easy to service hubs. However, for long term trouble free operation, I would not recommend the rear hub for above average sized riders. I consider my 76kg mass as at the limit or maybe even a bit beyond for these hubs.

[hansotto089]

I am dealing with a creak in my Carbon Ti hubs for a long time now. I frenetically replace bearings (SKFs) which does not seem to help.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/99ut1nu2 ... iglwq&dl=0

Could that be also the problem with undersized axles?

[Mr.Gib]

I am dealing with a creak in my Carbon Ti hubs for a long time now. I frenetically replace bearings (SKFs) which does not seem to help.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/99ut1nu2 ... iglwq&dl=0

Could that be also the problem with undersized axles?

Either undersized axle or axle wear. Carbon Ti has a good video showing disassembly and maintenance of the hub. Take it apart and have a good look at the axle. If the black anodizing is worn off, you will see a silver ring and you will be able to catch your nail on the notch that has been been formed by the inboard freehub bearing grinding away at the axle. If the surface of the axle is anything but perfect, or if the bearings are not a snug fit on the axle, contact Carbon Ti and ask them to send you a new axle. They will probably ask you to photograph the hub to determine if it is under warranty. Even if it is not under warranty ask for a free replacement anyway.

In the meantime (and for the future), make sure you keep the axle/bearing interfaces well greased, and the pre-load set so that there is zero play when the wheel is clamped in the frame. This usually means setting the pre-load differently than the video instructions suggest. The instructions have you tighten the preload until the threads just bottom out and then back off a quarter turn. Depending on the clamping force I will back off the pre-load somewhere between zero and an eighth of a turn. Also check that the wheel is free of play after some riding and repeat the process if necessary. I may end up with a wheel that is ever so slightly less free-spinning, but the tighter adjustment helps eliminate noise and wear. And no bearing issues with the extra bit of pre-load. Good luck.

[hansotto089]

Thank you!

[MagicShite]

I unironically sold a lot of carbon-ti hubs from where I'm from.

They vary so much in quality/QC over the few years I've sold them.

There's always something different from batch to batch that I gave up eventually selling them once better hubs are available.

I only had a handful of hubs that did not have the wearing of the axle, no matter how well you did the preload or how well those bearings are fitted. Let's not even get into the insanity of how the holes of the bearings are always inconsistent from batch to batch.

The AR56 + Carbon-ti at 1380g was something (still is) extremely attractive to use.

[jlok]

I unironically sold a lot of carbon-ti hubs from where I'm from.

They vary so much in quality/QC over the few years I've sold them.

There's always something different from batch to batch that I gave up eventually selling them once better hubs are available.

I only had a handful of hubs that did not have the wearing of the axle, no matter how well you did the preload or how well those bearings are fitted. Let's not even get into the insanity of how the holes of the bearings are always inconsistent from batch to batch.

The AR56 + Carbon-ti at 1380g was something (still is) extremely attractive to use.

What better hubs as alternatives?

[MagicShite]

I unironically sold a lot of carbon-ti hubs from where I'm from.

They vary so much in quality/QC over the few years I've sold them.

There's always something different from batch to batch that I gave up eventually selling them once better hubs are available.

I only had a handful of hubs that did not have the wearing of the axle, no matter how well you did the preload or how well those bearings are fitted. Let's not even get into the insanity of how the holes of the bearings are always inconsistent from batch to batch.

The AR56 + Carbon-ti at 1380g was something (still is) extremely attractive to use.

What better hubs as alternatives?

So far I am very happy with hworks, although they are slightly heavier. (still below 1.4kg with the ar56)

Although at this point with the popularity of carbon spokes there is very little reason to use carbon to hubs as most carbon spoked wheels comes with proprietary hubs.