Carbon spokes - why?

[razorree]

But ok, I understand you use those hubs, have a lot of milage and experience and can say that all the engineers who made those designs made a mistake and wheels are unsafe to ride ?

yep, possible, the problem is those engineers don't ride bikes, look how many problems there're in last years, with undersized caps, centerlock threads problems, broken light handlebars etc etc... easily to imagine that they didn't take into account real scenarios, like slightly undertensioned spokes (i guess it's normal after a year if you didn't check them every few months) and a big hole in a road....

[Kubackjeee]

Ok guys clearly understandable. Everyone has his fair point here. Wish everyone safe rides and zero problems with the wheels

[ryry]

How do we think the vertical & lateral stiffness/compliance between a 20 carbon spoke wheel and a 24 steel spoke wheel would compare? Data would be better than hypotheses but I understand if it's not available.

I hear of harsher ride being reported on carbon spokes with less perfect road surfaces (ofc also with better aero & weight) but have to expect that 20% fewer spokes may offset that if the baseline was with 24 carbon spokes instead.

[CuoreTi]

Tour magazin tested carbon spoke wheels a while ago. Cadex, Hunt, Newmen, Lightweight, etc.
Iirc Cadex (21H/24H) and Newmen (older Steem wheels with 21 spokes?) were stiff, Hunt (don't remember the spike count) not so much. Despite the lower spoke coints, lateral stiffnes was in line with previous test of steel spoke wheels, maybe a bit higher.

The article is now behind a paywall.
https://www.tour-magazin.de/kaufberatun ... n-im-test/

Wheels (without tires) in general offer a vertical compliance of less than 0,5mm under max load. As far as we know the specs of the carbon spokes, wheels with carbon spokes should have a little less, maybe even only half.
Tires offer more than 20mm of vertical compliance under max load, prior to end up in a snake bite, which is 40x more the the wheel alone and probably two magnitudes more than the difference between carbon and steel spokes.

Therefore I would expect the selected tire pressure to determine the feeling in real life.

According to Syntace, perceived vertical compliance in reality relates to lateral deflection. Thus, they set up hubs with extra narrow flanges.

[BernieMoves]

The article is now behind a paywall.
https://www.tour-magazin.de/kaufberatun ... n-im-test/

12ft.io is able to remove that paywall.

[ryry]

Decided to go for the 5mm carbon spokes! Thanks for the input y'all.

[teakay]

Yeah I'm very curious on what kind of setup spesh tested, but it's a fact that a single carbon spoke is aerodynamically worse than an aerolite II and probably cx-ray for the time being. Newmen did it by drastically reducing spoke count. As wheellab showed, it is possible to improve on carbon spokes still

It's interesting I have been looking at race wheels for next season and keep hoing around in circles on wheel choices. The carbon spoked Scope & Syncros seemed to test well in the tunnel & the Hunts aren't to far behind, but some of carbon spoked wheels have much larger spoke nipples and attachments to the hub. The round sections of some of the spokes are a bigger diameter and often longer than on steel spokes. I wondered if this negates some of the benefits of the deeper and fewer carbon spokes.
It would be good to see some testing of farsports evo's as their inner & out spoke nipple design on their carbon spoked wheels looks quite prominent & they do a steel spoke version of the wheel. Though not sure how well the spoke they use compares to the DT Swiss or CX ray steel spokes.

Currently I have been flipping between Ascent Polaris, Farsports Evo's and CRW's. I think Ascent do crash replacements and the availability of cx rays replacements is tipping the balance.

[Martin.F]

What are the go-to carbon spokes for a wheelbuild nowadays? I have some rims and hubs, and are back and forth between Berd and some carbon spokes. I was originally thinking the Nextie ones, but I see there are some issues with them?

I have a set of Newmen with vonoa spokes, but they are impossible to find for purchase separately

[JWTS]

Yeah I'm very curious on what kind of setup spesh tested, but it's a fact that a single carbon spoke is aerodynamically worse than an aerolite II and probably cx-ray for the time being. Newmen did it by drastically reducing spoke count. As wheellab showed, it is possible to improve on carbon spokes still

It's interesting I have been looking at race wheels for next season and keep hoing around in circles on wheel choices. The carbon spoked Scope & Syncros seemed to test well in the tunnel & the Hunts aren't to far behind, but some of carbon spoked wheels have much larger spoke nipples and attachments to the hub. The round sections of some of the spokes are a bigger diameter and often longer than on steel spokes. I wondered if this negates some of the benefits of the deeper and fewer carbon spokes.
It would be good to see some testing of farsports evo's as their inner & out spoke nipple design on their carbon spoked wheels looks quite prominent & they do a steel spoke version of the wheel. Though not sure how well the spoke they use compares to the DT Swiss or CX ray steel spokes.

Currently I have been flipping between Ascent Polaris, Farsports Evo's and CRW's. I think Ascent do crash replacements and the availability of cx rays replacements is tipping the balance.

Yeah, I agree. The double nipple and long round section on the EVO doesn't impress the eyeball wind tunnel. I'm willing to be wrong but in the absence of independent testing, I think I'll pass. I could see a shallower wheel like the Newmen vinos climb having equal or better aerodynamics

[nickf]

Just watched a review video about the new farsports wheels and a $150 tool is needed to work on the wheels with carbon spokes. Their new wheels with standard spokes are top of my list. BUT other than a crash I haven't ever needed to tru my kaze farsports wheels.

[bmrk]

Just watched a review video about the new farsports wheels and a $150 tool is needed to work on the wheels with carbon spokes. Their new wheels with standard spokes are top of my list. BUT other than a crash I haven't ever needed to tru my kaze farsports wheels.

Which tool? Link to the video?
The only tools needed to work my farsports set is a 5mm socket and a bladed spoke holding tool.

[nickf]

Just watched a review video about the new farsports wheels and a $150 tool is needed to work on the wheels with carbon spokes. Their new wheels with standard spokes are top of my list. BUT other than a crash I haven't ever needed to tru my kaze farsports wheels.

Which tool? Link to the video?
The only tools needed to work my farsports set is a 5mm socket and a bladed spoke holding tool.

He mentions the new carbon spoke wheels with no spoke holes requires this tool. Not sure if it's actually required but he seems to believe so.

[YouTube]https://youtu.be/jZWqRl1JgV8?si=ntqHFA6Ij5B24R-Y[/YouTube]

https://www.farsports.com/products/fars ... MdfxEAz972

[toxin]

Just watched a review video about the new farsports wheels and a $150 tool is needed to work on the wheels with carbon spokes. Their new wheels with standard spokes are top of my list. BUT other than a crash I haven't ever needed to tru my kaze farsports wheels.

Which tool? Link to the video?
The only tools needed to work my farsports set is a 5mm socket and a bladed spoke holding tool.

Do NOT use bladed spoke holders on carbon spokes. The spokes have a "nipple" on the threaded part meant for this very purpose.

[bmrk]

Just watched a review video about the new farsports wheels and a $150 tool is needed to work on the wheels with carbon spokes. Their new wheels with standard spokes are top of my list. BUT other than a crash I haven't ever needed to tru my kaze farsports wheels.

Which tool? Link to the video?
The only tools needed to work my farsports set is a 5mm socket and a bladed spoke holding tool.

Do NOT use bladed spoke holders on carbon spokes. The spokes have a "nipple" on the threaded part meant for this very purpose.

You’re right. Thanks for pointing that out, it is a standard tool nonetheless.

[joebusby]

So did we come to any kind of conclusion as to whether longer eg 5mm bladed spokes offer any putative aero benefits over something more regular eg 3.2 or 3.8mm?