2023: Going back to Clinchers-> Best Tire?

[Erlandal]

Maxxis Re-Fuse TR, easy to mount and dismantle.

The Re-Fuse is the least performing road tire ever tested by bicyclerollingresistance.com, not sure that's a great suggestion.

[cpark]

So I ran Tubeless Tires on the road for 2 years (GP 5000 TR/TL) probably 20K. They are absolutely great from a non having to change flats on the side of the road. I had 2-3 flats which sealed with me either pressing on them, or self sealing.. Great. The downside, which I won't debate here is not worth it to me, or at least wanting me to go back to clinchers.

So for 2023 I am going back to Clinchers, tires I am looking at:

1. Turbo Cottons 26s (Never tried, durability seems in question)
2. GP 5000 Non TL/TR (Tried them, have exlusively run thee)
3. PZERO Race (Interesting, rated very poorly in rolling resistance, seems almost a fluke)
3. S-Works T2/T5 Clincher

I am looking for 26-28 MM Tire width on Roval Rapide Wheels (Alpinist / Rapid I), that is light. Right now I am actually leaning towards Turbo Cottons in 26s, or S-Works T2/T5. I will be running them with Tubolito TPU tubes.

Thanks!

Late chiming in here....

I ran/run the 28mm cotton turbo tires on my Aetho/Taramc, 28mm 5000s (tubed) on Venge, 27mm Enve tires (tubeless) on my Melee, 30mm RapidAir (tubeless) on Open MIND, and 32mm 5000 TL on Creo.

Enve and cotton turbo feel most supple and 5000 TL seems most durable.
If I only have one road bike, I will probably run the 5000s with tube or 5000 TL.
In my opinion the 5000 TL is the best tubeless tire ever made in terms of durability and rolling resistance, but it is a bit heavy (because they are tubeless tires, not tubeless ready tires) and it is impossible to find because it was discontinued.

[nickf]

@Nickf 1400km on Corsa Evo - wear is visible but not squaring (yet). Put the rear on the front now.

I'm right at 1400km on the corsa evo 28's. The wear looks excellent so far. Big improvement over the old Masters. I have them set up with Vittoria latex tubes, great riding tires.

[Nezz0r]

Same here! Also Vittoria latex; I have gotten really confident on/with these tires

[macwatt]

I recently had a puncture using GP5000's so I decided to put back on Michelin Power Cup clincher tyres 25mm on the front and 28mm previously used 28mm GP5000's front and rear.

I'm using the same TPU tubes GP5000's measured 29.2mm on my Roval Rapide CLX's Michelin's 28.4 & 31mm. I use SRAM tyre pressure calculator which doesn't take measured width into the equation to say the Michelin's felt more comfortable is an understatement even the front 25mm felt better with a higher pressure.

The GP5000's are a great tyre but for comfort they are definitely way behind Power Cups or Turbo Cottons if that's important to you BRR tests show they are slightly slower but certainly don't feel it .

I'm a light rider total weight 67kg SRAM's calculator

Michelin Power Cups 75 & 69psi

GP 5000's 65 & 69psi

If I used Silca Pro which I found pressures slightly too high on GP5000's

Michelin Power Cups's 74.5 (70.5 if I round up to 29mm) & 65psi

GP 5000's 70.5 & 72psi.

[HBike]

Still very happy with GP5000. Came back from tubeless on road to clinchers (on my gravel I use tubeless without issues; on the road it didn't work that well so far for me).
Bontrager Aeolus 51 RSL (1.44 kg set). 28C GP5000 measure 29.5 mm and 29.8 mm using 4.8 and 5 bar, Vittoria TPUs, 30g. Still very happy so far.

Originally I wanted to try the new Vittoria Corsa Pros but the thread on it on WW seems to convince me to stay with the Gp5000 or try the Power Cups. But the 28c will likely measure 31mm or larger on the 23mm rims.

[HBike]

Deleted. Double post

[LanceLegstrong]

I was considering going back to clinchers partly because I have a ton of unopened latex tubes lying around and also because I can get a super deal on a pair of GP5000 in cream sidewall. Looking at BRR, it looks like the tubed version with latex tubes is faster than the GP5000 S TR. Is that correct?

[Singular]

I was considering going back to clinchers partly because I have a ton of unopened latex tubes lying around and also because I can get a super deal on a pair of GP5000 in cream sidewall. Looking at BRR, it looks like the tubed version with latex tubes is faster than the GP5000 S TR. Is that correct?

It's a wash. I do recall something of the creamwall ones being ever so slightly heavier/sturdier (because of the painted/applied finish?), but I might be mistaken.

[LanceLegstrong]

I was considering going back to clinchers partly because I have a ton of unopened latex tubes lying around and also because I can get a super deal on a pair of GP5000 in cream sidewall. Looking at BRR, it looks like the tubed version with latex tubes is faster than the GP5000 S TR. Is that correct?

It's a wash. I do recall something of the creamwall ones being ever so slightly heavier/sturdier (because of the painted/applied finish?), but I might be mistaken.

Wouldn't surprise me. But I'm a sucker for that color. I may just order one off Amazon and give it a weigh.

[macwatt]

I was considering going back to clinchers partly because I have a ton of unopened latex tubes lying around and also because I can get a super deal on a pair of GP5000 in cream sidewall. Looking at BRR, it looks like the tubed version with latex tubes is faster than the GP5000 S TR. Is that correct?

Hi

BRR stated that using an inner tube with GP 5000 S TR increases RR and weight therefore doesn't make sense to use this combination.

If you want to use inner tubes better to use clincher GP 5000 as it's cheaper, lighter, better tread protection and RR using the same inner tube.

The cream GP5000's are slightly heavier with slightly increased RR compared to black tyre.

[LanceLegstrong]

I was considering going back to clinchers partly because I have a ton of unopened latex tubes lying around and also because I can get a super deal on a pair of GP5000 in cream sidewall. Looking at BRR, it looks like the tubed version with latex tubes is faster than the GP5000 S TR. Is that correct?

Hi

BRR stated that using an inner tube with GP 5000 S TR increases RR and weight therefore doesn't make sense to use this combination.

If you want to use inner tubes better to use clincher GP 5000 as it's cheaper, lighter, better tread protection and RR using the same inner tube.

The cream GP5000's are slightly heavier with slightly increased RR compared to black tyre.

Yea the plan was to use the GP5000 (tube type), not put a tube in the S TR version. BRR has the clincher with latex being ever so slightly faster than the S TR (less than a watt). I didn't see the RR compared for the cream sidewall version, but the transparent sidewall of the S TR version is slightly slower so yea, it wouldn't surprise. Curious how much slower.

[Woland]

Having just recently switched from 28mm GP5000S TR to GP5000 with latex tubes and running both at medium air pressures (per BRR scale), I can't feel any speed difference one way or the other.

However, these two tires have a very different ride feel. The TR version is muted and feels very smooth, but bigger road cracks result in a noticeable jolt in the handlebars - the tire is comfortable (smooth) until it isn't. The big difference is in the initial comfort zone where there are no cracks - the TR version feels mute and numb whereas the tt version is communicative and lets you know of the surface quality changes.

[LanceLegstrong]

In the name of science, I did some ordering.

- GP5000 clincher in 28 cream wall (tube type): 279g, 285g
- GP5000 S TR 25 black wall (tubeless): 264g
- GP5000 S TR 28 black wall (tubeless): 283g, 278g
- GP5000 TL 28 black wall (tubeless): 289g, 296g
- Challenge Criterium RS 27 (tubeless): 262g, 250g
- Challenge Criterium RS 25 (tubeless): 228g
- Vittoria Competition latex tube 25/28: 78g
- RideNow TPU tube (reguler version, not ultralight): 33g
- random butyl tube (I think a 25 or 28?): 154g
- Schwalbe Pro ONE TLE 25 (tubeless): 262g
- Tubolito S-Tubo TPU tube:23g
- tubeless valve stems 50mm: 13g pair

So full weight of tube type clinchers and
- latex tubes: 720g
- TPU tubes: 630g

Thoughts: Tubeless is lighter by a good bit from the tires I weighed, surprisingly so. I knew the cream wall clinchers would be heavier than the black ones, but I didn't expect them to be the same or more than the tubeless tires. The Challenge tires are a good bit lighter and only lose a watt or two to the GP5000 S TR tires. I've been using them on my crit bike and they've been really good. I think BRR rates them better for puncture protection as well. Substantial weight savings with TPU tubes, and could go even lighter with the 18g ultralight versions, which would probably put them on par with tubeless + sealant. Sorry, I was too lazy to weigh out sealant and didn't want to waste it. But I would imagine it's a similar weight to the TPU tubes and probably lighter than latex.

[HBike]

In the name of science, I did some ordering.

- GP5000 clincher in 28 cream wall (tube type): 279g, 285g
- GP5000 S TR 25 black wall (tubeless): 264g
- GP5000 S TR 28 black wall (tubeless): 283g, 278g
- GP5000 TL 28 black wall (tubeless): 289g, 296g
- Challenge Criterium RS 27 (tubeless): 262g, 250g
- Challenge Criterium RS 25 (tubeless): 228g
- Vittoria Competition latex tube 25/28: 78g
- RideNow TPU tube (reguler version, not ultralight): 33g
- random butyl tube (I think a 25 or 28?): 154g
- Schwalbe Pro ONE TLE 25 (tubeless): 262g
- Tubolito S-Tubo TPU tube:23g
- tubeless valve stems 50mm: 13g pair

So full weight of tube type clinchers and
- latex tubes: 720g
- TPU tubes: 630g

Thoughts: Tubeless is lighter by a good bit from the tires I weighed, surprisingly so. I knew the cream wall clinchers would be heavier than the black ones, but I didn't expect them to be the same or more than the tubeless tires. The Challenge tires are a good bit lighter and only lose a watt or two to the GP5000 S TR tires. I've been using them on my crit bike and they've been really good. I think BRR rates them better for puncture protection as well. Substantial weight savings with TPU tubes, and could go even lighter with the 18g ultralight versions, which would probably put them on par with tubeless + sealant. Sorry, I was too lazy to weigh out sealant and didn't want to waste it. But I would imagine it's a similar weight to the TPU tubes and probably lighter than latex.

My GP5000 Clinchers in 28c weigh around 231g, the 25c weighs 218g. I use Vittoria Ultra Light Speed tubes (31g each). So clearly lighter than the S TR with 30ml sealant and valves.