New Michelin Power Cup Tubeless: GP5K S TR competitor

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FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Don't know if I'd call it overexaggerated, when the manufacturer clearly states the 28s are not made for 21c rims? Same for 30s.
I am not saying it means they will certainly be dangerous. It just means the manufacturer didn't construct them to work that way, didn't test them for it, or that they didn't pass internal internal testing.
Additionally, we have seen people getting marks on the side walls of these in this thread and the thread of the 28mm is actually narrower compared to the casing as tge 25mm compared to its casing.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

by Weenie


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C36
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by C36

FlatlandClimber wrote:Don't know if I'd call it overexaggerated, when the manufacturer clearly states the 28s are not made for 21c rims? Same for 30s.
[…]
Additionally, we have seen people getting marks on the side walls of these in this thread and the thread of the 28mm is actually narrower compared to the casing as tge 25mm compared to its casing.
Not sure where you got this (local cust support?), they follow 2022 etrto. Then 28mm fits c25.

Directly from Michelin team when I asked what std where they following.
Image

Etienne
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:41 am
Location: France

by Etienne

Hi, received a pair of 25mm TLR yesterday (sorry, didn't weigh them :oops: ) ... mounted on LB AR56 rims (23 internal), they measure around 28,5mm for 65-70 psi.

I am a little bit surprised by this width, I expected more considering what was measured here and elsewhere and they will probably stretch a little bit but 28,5mm is fine.

Installation on rims was relatively easy (no tire levers needed, just gloves for good grip) and bead seating was just as easy, with a simple floor pump without even removing valve cores. Air retention is excellent, loss is less than 15 psi for 24h, just added 30ml of sealant today.

Road experience later, because for the moment roads are to wet and dirty to try new tires ... furthermore there's much of what seems to be residual "demolding compound" and I don't want to do ice skating on wheels :mrgreen:

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12443
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Etienne wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:48 am
Hi, received a pair of 25mm TLR yesterday (sorry, didn't weigh them :oops: ) ... mounted on LB AR56 rims (23 internal), they measure around 28,5mm for 65-70 psi.

I am a little bit surprised by this width, I expected more considering what was measured here and elsewhere and they will probably stretch a little bit but 28,5mm is fine.

Installation on rims was relatively easy (no tire levers needed, just gloves for good grip) and bead seating was just as easy, with a simple floor pump without even removing valve cores. Air retention is excellent, loss is less than 15 psi for 24h, just added 30ml of sealant today.

Road experience later, because for the moment roads are to wet and dirty to try new tires ... furthermore there's much of what seems to be residual "demolding compound" and I don't want to do ice skating on wheels :mrgreen:

Someone else with those rims measured their 25s at 29.8mm. Maybe he had hookless AR56s? Are yours hooked?

Or maybe Michelin realized they messed up and actually revised the dimensions of the 25mm casing.

Etienne
Posts: 374
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:41 am
Location: France

by Etienne

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:08 am
Someone else with those rims measured their 25s at 29.8mm. Maybe he had hookless AR56s? Are yours hooked?
Yes, mine are hooked.
TobinHatesYou wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:08 am
Or maybe Michelin realized they messed up and actually revised the dimensions of the 25mm casing.
I asked myself the same question ... I measured the casing width and it seems narrower than what BRR measured :idea:

naavt
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:58 pm

by naavt

Are you guys pumping to suggested pressures by manufacturers marked tire width or real tire width once installed?

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

The printing on the tire only gives pressures for 17C and 19C rims (which I believe are the only rims these tires are officially rated for). Therefore, I guess hardly anyone does that.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

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C36
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

FlatlandClimber wrote:The printing on the tire only gives pressures for 17C and 19C rims (which I believe are the only rims these tires are officially rated for). Therefore, I guess hardly anyone does that.
Again… they are compatible with the full range of etrto specs.

naavt
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:58 pm

by naavt

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:04 am
The printing on the tire only gives pressures for 17C and 19C rims (which I believe are the only rims these tires are officially rated for). Therefore, I guess hardly anyone does that.
I've probably explained me wrong. Pressure is lower for wider tires so I wanted to know if you guys are inflating to a 25 wide tire (when using 25s), or inflating to 28 specs (since 25 tires are measured at 28 when assembled on a wide rim)

TobinHatesYou
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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

naavt wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:21 pm
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:04 am
The printing on the tire only gives pressures for 17C and 19C rims (which I believe are the only rims these tires are officially rated for). Therefore, I guess hardly anyone does that.
I've probably explained me wrong. Pressure is lower for wider tires so I wanted to know if you guys are inflating to a 25 wide tire (when using 25s), or inflating to 28 specs (since 25 tires are measured at 28 when assembled on a wide rim)

I'm using pressures according to WAM, not the listing on the box. If I inflated 25mm Power Cup TLR to claimed size, that would be a very harsh ride at their 29.3mm WAM.

It should also be noted that a Power Cup TLR 30mm on that same rim may not measure much wider, but would be significantly taller.

naavt
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:58 pm

by naavt

TobinHatesYoue wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:42 pm

I'm using pressures according to WAM, not the listing on the box. If I inflated 25mm Power Cup TLR to claimed size, that would be a very harsh ride at their 29.3mm WAM.

It should also be noted that a Power Cup TLR 30mm on that same rim may not measure much wider, but would be significantly taller.
Thanks

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

C36 wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:37 am
FlatlandClimber wrote:The printing on the tire only gives pressures for 17C and 19C rims (which I believe are the only rims these tires are officially rated for). Therefore, I guess hardly anyone does that.
Again… they are compatible with the full range of etrto specs.
Again, the specific reply to compatibility of these particular tires, by customer support UK was:

Image
Image

Also, the minimum pressure printed on the tires is 5 bar, which is the same information from the Website, which renders these "not tubeless compatible" and therefor not ETRTO 2021 compliant.

I have now reached out to the German customer service as well, but there is quite some evidence suggesting 19c is the widest they are build for.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

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C36
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:24 am

by C36

You are showing the old Etrto table, that was used for the previous generation of tires on Michelin website.

The table I displayed is from the French Customer service answere august 2022, when the new norm has been released.

In case you still have a doubt, it has also been confirmed by a tester asking the engineering team when installing the tires on wider wheels than is team-issued Shimano wheels.

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

I'm very happy to be wrong in this case, since this is a potentially great product, held back by one weird fact.

The table I showed was send to a question on these particular tires in July 2022, so I am not sure which one is correct.
Assuming your chart is correct, it however also confirms, that they are NOT TSS compatible (it states only for MTB TSS is acceptable, and for road only TC).
Therefore, these are irrelevant to me anyway. Which is okay. Just a little weird to release a product like this in mid 2022.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



naavt
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:58 pm

by naavt

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Sat Jan 07, 2023 5:12 pm

Assuming your chart is correct, it however also confirms, that they are NOT TSS compatible (it states only for MTB TSS is acceptable, and for road only TC).
What? Really? I've just installed mines on a pair of Zipp's 303s and now I'm thinking if I go ahead and ride them on those wheels :roll:

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