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https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=162918
Orange Seal regular, 70-80 PSI on 26s and 50-70 PSI on 28s and 30s (older version of P-Zero, 26s are SLs). Tried loads of other sealants including Silca, MilkIT, MucOff, OKO, Hutchinson, Decathlon, OS Endurance but nothing is as good as OS reg.
UrgentDelay wrote: ↑Sun Mar 03, 2024 11:47 pmTo the guys who also rode Continental GP5000 S TR in the same size: is the ride quality better on P Zero (assuming both were ridden tubeless or both with tubes)?
The 4.7 W difference will be at extra high pressure (90 PSI / 6.2 bar). Does anybody still ride at such high pressure? At more reasonable pressures the difference will be larger: 5.7 W at 5 bar and 7.1 W at 3.7 bar. Per wheel. So you have to double that number.UrgentDelay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 7:33 pmThanks! From what I've read the consensus is that P Zero 4S is the most comfy, racing tyre. If it's more comfy than GP5000 of the same width on the label, it won't matter if the actual measured width is lower.
CONS: mentioned weight + also rolling resistance, 4.7W between 28mm GP5000 and 28mm P Zero Race TLR 4S SpeedCore, as measured by bicyclerollingresistance
100% this. In realistic scenario (slightly worn tyres, pressure around 5bar) it's probably around 12-15W penalty. That is a lot. And regular P Zero TLR are fantastic tyres.thirdsun wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:01 amThe 4.7 W difference will be at extra high pressure (90 PSI / 6.2 bar). Does anybody still ride at such high pressure? At more reasonable pressures the difference will be larger: 5.7 W at 5 bar and 7.1 W at 3.7 bar. Per wheel. So you have to double that number.UrgentDelay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 7:33 pmThanks! From what I've read the consensus is that P Zero 4S is the most comfy, racing tyre. If it's more comfy than GP5000 of the same width on the label, it won't matter if the actual measured width is lower.
CONS: mentioned weight + also rolling resistance, 4.7W between 28mm GP5000 and 28mm P Zero Race TLR 4S SpeedCore, as measured by bicyclerollingresistance
To me that's a significant difference. Unless you want puncture resistance at all costs I'd opt for the non-4S P Zero Race TLR which is very, very puncture resistant already and rolls slightly faster. Or the GP 5000 AllSeason TR, which rolls faster than both Pirelli but provides a little less puncture resistance.
It's a huge difference indeed, I didn't look like it this way. I only looked into the "4S" version, because it was recommended to me as the most comfy one. I even thought that "4S" stands for "for Speed"thirdsun wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:01 amThe 4.7 W difference will be at extra high pressure (90 PSI / 6.2 bar). Does anybody still ride at such high pressure? At more reasonable pressures the difference will be larger: 5.7 W at 5 bar and 7.1 W at 3.7 bar. Per wheel. So you have to double that number.
To me that's a significant difference. Unless you want puncture resistance at all costs I'd opt for the non-4S P Zero Race TLR which is very, very puncture resistant already and rolls slightly faster. Or the GP 5000 AllSeason TR, which rolls faster than both Pirelli but provides a little less puncture resistance.
In my opinion tire comfort primarily depends tire pressure. Most high end tires will ride well when used with suitable tire pressure. These days people seem to be aware that the right pressure is often lower than most assumed in the past. You should use Zipp's tire pressure calculator to see if you're in the right ballpark: https://axs.sram.com/guides/tire/pressureUrgentDelay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:08 pmIt's a huge difference indeed, I didn't look like it this way. I only looked into the "4S" version, because it was recommended to me as the most comfy one. I even thought that "4S" stands for "for Speed"thirdsun wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:01 amThe 4.7 W difference will be at extra high pressure (90 PSI / 6.2 bar). Does anybody still ride at such high pressure? At more reasonable pressures the difference will be larger: 5.7 W at 5 bar and 7.1 W at 3.7 bar. Per wheel. So you have to double that number.
To me that's a significant difference. Unless you want puncture resistance at all costs I'd opt for the non-4S P Zero Race TLR which is very, very puncture resistant already and rolls slightly faster. Or the GP 5000 AllSeason TR, which rolls faster than both Pirelli but provides a little less puncture resistance.
Would you suggest a P Zero Race TLR SpeedCore then? Will there be a noticeable difference in comfort vs 4S? I don't care about puncture resistance when running tubeless.
The optimum speed/comfort I'm looking at right now is: GP5000 28mm S TR front, 32mm P Zero rear, don't know which ver will be the comfiest one though.
btw the difference between P Zero Race TLR 4S SpeedCore 28 and P Zero Race TLR SpeedCore 28 is 2W at 90 psi, so it would be c.a. 3W for lower pressures. No that noticeable anymore, hence if going for speed one should always switch to GP5000.
Thanks! When it comes to looks, I only care about the looks of people whom I'm taking over during a weekly "crit". However, people told me that P Zero is noticeably comfier than GP5000, but maybe it's not as noticeable with wider tires.thirdsun wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:32 pmIn my opinion tire comfort primarily depends tire pressure. Most high end tires will ride well when used with suitable tire pressure. These days people seem to be aware that the right pressure is often lower than most assumed in the past. You should use Zipp's tire pressure calculator to see if you're in the right ballpark: https://axs.sram.com/guides/tire/pressure
I wouldn't mix different tire models front and rear. It looks silly. However using a narrower tire at the front for aerodynamics and a wider tire at the back for comfort is absolutely fine. I'd go with 28 mm front and 30 mm back.
Honestly, if puncture resistance isn't that big of a concern to you I'd probably go with the GP 5000 S TR. They are very fast and as you said the tubeless setup will do the heavy lifting when it comes to puncture resistance.
If you don't mind trading a little bit of rolling resistance for a huge gain in puncture resistance Pirelli P Zero Race TLR are excellent. By the way 4S stands for 4 Seasons - it's not a race tire
I'd also consider GP 5000 AllSeason TR. They sit somewhere inbetween the GP 5000 and P Zero Race TLR - slightly faster, less puncture resistant but rather heavy for a road tire.
There's also the Tufo Comtura Prima TR which sounds promising on paper but I haven't ridden it yet.
TL;DR: Go with GP 5000 S TR or Pirelli P Zero Race TLR. 28 mm front, 30 mm back and make sure that you're not riding with too much pressure. Use Zipp's tire pressure calculator.
IMO comfort->training volume->speed, so comfort is supreme, but I guess there should also be some aero benefit for them aligning with the frame even better, than narrower tires.Ok. Well, in my opinion tire pressure is the most important factor when it comes to comfort. Provided it's set correctly I find all mentioned tires (GP 5000 S TR, P Zero Race TLR, GP 5000 AS TR) equally comfortable. However The GP 5000 S TR is simply rolling faster.UrgentDelay wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 11:45 pmThanks! When it comes to looks, I only care about the looks of people whom I'm taking over during a weekly "crit". However, people told me that P Zero is noticeably comfier than GP5000, but maybe it's not as noticeable with wider tires.thirdsun wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:32 pmIn my opinion tire comfort primarily depends tire pressure. Most high end tires will ride well when used with suitable tire pressure. These days people seem to be aware that the right pressure is often lower than most assumed in the past. You should use Zipp's tire pressure calculator to see if you're in the right ballpark: https://axs.sram.com/guides/tire/pressure
I wouldn't mix different tire models front and rear. It looks silly. However using a narrower tire at the front for aerodynamics and a wider tire at the back for comfort is absolutely fine. I'd go with 28 mm front and 30 mm back.
Honestly, if puncture resistance isn't that big of a concern to you I'd probably go with the GP 5000 S TR. They are very fast and as you said the tubeless setup will do the heavy lifting when it comes to puncture resistance.
If you don't mind trading a little bit of rolling resistance for a huge gain in puncture resistance Pirelli P Zero Race TLR are excellent. By the way 4S stands for 4 Seasons - it's not a race tire
I'd also consider GP 5000 AllSeason TR. They sit somewhere inbetween the GP 5000 and P Zero Race TLR - slightly faster, less puncture resistant but rather heavy for a road tire.
There's also the Tufo Comtura Prima TR which sounds promising on paper but I haven't ridden it yet.
TL;DR: Go with GP 5000 S TR or Pirelli P Zero Race TLR. 28 mm front, 30 mm back and make sure that you're not riding with too much pressure. Use Zipp's tire pressure calculator.
BTW I already rode with 28mm front and 32mm rear GP5000 S TR during the last season. Right now I'd basically go with as wide a tire as my frame would fit, but they're not making wider ones
About calculators, I've been using the SILCA's. Have you tested it against ZIPP? It put me at 64 PSI rear for 32mmWAM (narrow 19mm rims, changing to 25mm this year).
General consensus is Silca's gives a higher value, but for me it gives me apx 5psi lower value for my rear tyre vs the Zipp calculator. Dunno which to believe. =\