Pirelli P Zero TLR tubeless

[cleanneon98]

That may be true but I can't feel a difference going from my 5000 S TR to the P-Zero TLR RS when it comes to cornering. In my head I actually feel more confident cornering because even before this test the Pirelli tires stood out in their grip scores and I think NorCal cycling interviewed some guys at a (rainy) crit a while ago and most were on Pirelli tires. This bit from the review really hypes me up to go ride in the wet

"Pirelli's claims align with our tests because we see a faster tire that provides extreme wet grip. To give you an idea of the grip level: we have tested tires on our grip tester that offer less grip on a dry surface than this Pirelli tire on a wet surface."

[jlok]

Very nice test results but I would not trust thr grip result if the tire profile is pointy like the P Zero Race / 4S clinchers. The pointy profile makes the clincher very slippery when wet despite the 4S being tested with good wet grip.

What does a pointy profile have to do with grip? It's getting deformed into the same shape as a rounder tire when it contacts the ground under your body weight.

I was wondering this too and JLok's comment was putting me off a bit tbh. Tyre pressure and inner rim width would make a difference to the final shape, running on wider modern rims (21mm+) and lower pressures would make the unloaded tyre profile shape even more irrelevant I think?

If a tyre is designed to be pointy, then it's molded to a different thickness gradient compared to a round tyre. No matter the ID/pressure it will be pointy after inflation, and the actual contact shape on the ground will be longer and narrower compared to a round equivalent.

Exactly this. It will be very obvious when on dry days you roll over a little puddle of water and observe how narrow the water mark on the tread.

As I said, IF the profile is pointy as the clincher model, please be careful on wet surface, even when BRR test results says otherwise. I did not mean to just say bad thing to random new product that everybody loves. Just keep the profile thing in mind when wet.

[cleanneon98]

Guessing here but perhaps the pointed shape is more aerodynamic while also putting more rubber in the center (more life and better puncture protection) and keeping RR low. I'm sure there's multiple ways to skin this cat, but im sticking with these Pirelli RS going forward. I only ever bought the 4000 s2 and 5000 and 5000 S TR so it's good to have a worthy competitor that has a few advantages at a very small trade-off

[jlok]

Guessing here but perhaps the pointed shape is more aerodynamic while also putting more rubber in the center (more life and better puncture protection) and keeping RR low. I'm sure there's multiple ways to skin this cat, but im sticking with these Pirelli RS going forward. I only ever bought the 4000 s2 and 5000 and 5000 S TR so it's good to have a worthy competitor that has a few advantages at a very small trade-off

I actually like the Race clinchers and I put it at front wheel with latex tubes. The width matches my wheel quite well. The dry grip is great, and due to the pointy profile, the bike becomes very responsive when changing the lean angle. The feedback in technical descents / curve is great. I love it for dry days but will be very careful when wet. I don't like it on the rear b'cos even when I lowered the pressure, the rear still skipped when climbing in wet. If the RS has the same pointy profile, I think it will have similar traits.

Visually, you can use the water puddle method to compare different profiles and see how pointy relatively speaking. Or, use a vernier caliper and see where the widest points of the sidewall touch the caliper. Let's say the Race is at the extreme end of pointy profile, then Maxxis High Road is at the other extreme end of rounded profile, just as an example. Guess what? The High Road has the best wet grip in my experience (but it's RR is high AF).

Maybe I should have purchased the RS before speaking, but the BRR wet grip test could have its flaw. Be careful.

[cleanneon98]

Thinking out loud but if the profile is more pointed then wouldn't the contact patch be the same or larger when the bike is leaned over? I guess it depends how far leaned over you are but regardless a buddy of mine has used the non-RS in wet crits without issue, and this video from NorCal has a lot of guys on the Pirelli as well: https://youtu.be/mOQeI_4hm5M?si=0CAOUQC9PzTjrBcZ

I don't think I'll be pushing them near their limits since I rarely ride in the wet, usually only if it happens to rain when I'm already out, but mentally having that headroom is reassuring

If you're going to buy them, Lordgun and Gambacicli have good pricing and are my go-to sites for tires

[jlok]

Thinking out loud but if the profile is more pointed then wouldn't the contact patch be the same or larger when the bike is leaned over? I guess it depends how far leaned over you are but regardless a buddy of mine has used the non-RS in wet crits without issue, and this video from NorCal has a lot of guys on the Pirelli as well: https://youtu.be/mOQeI_4hm5M?si=0CAOUQC9PzTjrBcZ

I don't think I'll be pushing them near their limits since I rarely ride in the wet, usually only if it happens to rain when I'm already out, but mentally having that headroom is reassuring

If you're going to buy them, Lordgun and Gambacicli have good pricing and are my go-to sites for tires

If you turn at the radius that matches the pointy profile, then I think yes... but if youre descending in wet with speed... good luck. Remember Pogacar's f_cking tire rant? Perhaps it's the profile. The last time I experienced the rear tire skidding on wet descent was on the road that I am very familiar with. Not happened on all other tires I have tried, not even on the Challenge.

Again, no harm to have pointy profile. Just be careful. We all know the GP5000 is not the grippiest in wet but we still take the positive of the tire, just as an example.

[cleanneon98]

At that point the tire profile definitely makes a difference but I'd think the tire compound will also be a big factor and Pirelli seems to have a very grippy compound. End of the day I think most 28mm road bike tires are all too skinny to match the power of even a low end rim brake, contrary to auto racing where I put big sticky summer/track tires on my car with street brakes and literally couldn't lock the tires up.

[208]

Anyone measured up the 32s on any particular rim? Curious about those..

[cleanneon98]

My understanding is this chart is pretty accurate.

[ColonelMustard]

If you turn at the radius that matches the pointy profile, then I think yes... but if youre descending in wet with speed... good luck. Remember Pogacar's f_cking tire rant? Perhaps it's the profile. The last time I experienced the rear tire skidding on wet descent was on the road that I am very familiar with. Not happened on all other tires I have tried, not even on the Challenge.

Again, no harm to have pointy profile. Just be careful. We all know the GP5000 is not the grippiest in wet but we still take the positive of the tire, just as an example.

Similar comment made by 'Cody' at the bottom of this article: https://bikerumor.com/review-p-zero-rac ... e-to-date/

[BigBoyND]

My understanding is this chart is pretty accurate.

The ETRTO standard really makes it unnecessary to have 28mm, 30mm and 32mm tires. Since they use different IW, there ends up being 1mm between them. Brands should switch to offering 28mm, 31mm, and 34mm instead.

If the chart is accurate, then the 32mm RS is only 1mm bigger than my 28mm TT TR and 28mm Prima.

[TobinHatesYou]

My 30s were 31.5mm freshly inflated to 60psi on a 23mm rim while Pirelli’s chart claims 31mm at 73psi. I’m sure after one ride, they would have been a bit over 32mm.

[Jaisen]

My understanding is this chart is pretty accurate.

The ETRTO standard really makes it unnecessary to have 28mm, 30mm and 32mm tires. Since they use different IW, there ends up being 1mm between them. Brands should switch to offering 28mm, 31mm, and 34mm instead.

If the chart is accurate, then the 32mm RS is only 1mm bigger than my 28mm TT TR and 28mm Prima.

IMO 28 and 29 tires will effectively be the same thing aerodynamically and the 29's would be ok with 25mm internal width rims according to ETRTO standards, so the brands should just discontinue 28's. Just go 29,32,35. That ensures compatibility with all modern rims. 29's will be the choice for those who want to maximize weight reduction and aerodynamics, 32's will be pretty much the tolerance limit for most modern road bike frames thereby optimizing grip and comfort, and 35's would be fine for endurance frames.

[HBike]

Guessing here but perhaps the pointed shape is more aerodynamic while also putting more rubber in the center (more life and better puncture protection) and keeping RR low. I'm sure there's multiple ways to skin this cat, but im sticking with these Pirelli RS going forward. I only ever bought the 4000 s2 and 5000 and 5000 S TR so it's good to have a worthy competitor that has a few advantages at a very small trade-off

I actually like the Race clinchers and I put it at front wheel with latex tubes. The width matches my wheel quite well. The dry grip is great, and due to the pointy profile, the bike becomes very responsive when changing the lean angle. The feedback in technical descents / curve is great. I love it for dry days but will be very careful when wet. I don't like it on the rear b'cos even when I lowered the pressure, the rear still skipped when climbing in wet. If the RS has the same pointy profile, I think it will have similar traits.

Visually, you can use the water puddle method to compare different profiles and see how pointy relatively speaking. Or, use a vernier caliper and see where the widest points of the sidewall touch the caliper. Let's say the Race is at the extreme end of pointy profile, then Maxxis High Road is at the other extreme end of rounded profile, just as an example. Guess what? The High Road has the best wet grip in my experience (but it's RR is high AF).

Maybe I should have purchased the RS before speaking, but the BRR wet grip test could have its flaw. Be careful.

There are so many factors at play, one should be careful in making predictions. The tire thickness in the RS is clearly lower than e.g. in the Race TLR Speedcore and other 28c Pirellis (and a lot thinner than, e.g. the GP5000 clincher version), which should affect the deformation under load as is rider weight. Unless there is data showing a nonlinear increase/decrease of the contact patch whith cornering angle, this is all speculation.

[cleanneon98]

In theory wouldn't this be more prevalent at say 90psi than 60psi for example, under the same weight rider?