Hookless and updated ISO Standards - Thomas De Gendt Crash

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

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The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
BigBoyND
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

I think the China criteria is reasonable. If a brand neglects QC and someone gets hurt due to their negligence, western brands face greater accountability. This is not related to mfg location but where the office sits. For some consumers it also goes beyond the end product.

I've been around long enough to know that companies provide the bare minimum to maximize profits. And the minimum threshold is lower when you don't have to play along with the same rules and regulations (QC, labor laws, environmental laws, etc.). Every company I've worked at which manufactured in China, had strict and enforced rules for these things, and they all cost money.

You might also have reasonable preferences about how much of your money is collected by which government or supports which economy. On a $2000 western wheel, about $300 will go to country of origin and the rest to HQ (if you care about your local economy). On a $1000 eastern wheel, $900+ will go to country of origin.

You may or may not care about things other than saving money. But if you do, then there are a lot of factors to balance which are completely reasonable.

by Weenie


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mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 336
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

My view is that the Chinese market still lacks some maturity, accountability and critical mass.

I'm not going to tell anyone else they shouldn't buy Chinese wheels. Like any purchase, there are compromises and some may be willing to compromise on Chinese wheels to achieve the exceptional value and bleeding edge vitals they offer.

It's just personal preference, much like the compromises made to hit my criteria.

6fu
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:59 am

by 6fu

In general I agree with that, and that's why I prefer western brands as well, but I would still choose reputable chinese rim with western hub over western wheel with safety features removed or known issues (like hookless or hub issues).

BigBoyND
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 1:51 am
Location: Berlin, DE

by BigBoyND

6fu wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:38 am
In general I agree with that, and that's why I prefer western brands as well, but I would still choose reputable chinese rim with western hub over western wheel with safety features removed or known issues (like hookless or hub issues).
Makes sense, but there are western brands with hooks, so I'm not sure I understand why it would come down to these two options.

6fu
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:59 am

by 6fu

BigBoyND wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2024 6:26 am
6fu wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:38 am
In general I agree with that, and that's why I prefer western brands as well, but I would still choose reputable chinese rim with western hub over western wheel with safety features removed or known issues (like hookless or hub issues).
Makes sense, but there are western brands with hooks, so I'm not sure I understand why it would come down to these two options.
It doesn't, of course. Mikey constantly brings up Chinese wheels to discussion to compare them to 3k € hookless zipps, presumably to make zipp seem like safer and better option :noidea:

EtoDemerzel
Posts: 224
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2023 4:13 pm

by EtoDemerzel

"straw man" arguments.
When you can't argue against facts and salient arguments against hookless, try to constantly deflect the discussion into something they think they can "win".
Hopefully enough that the page count turns and they can forget about responding to the real issues and inconsistencies of hookless.

mikehhhhhhh
Posts: 336
Joined: Tue May 16, 2023 3:08 pm
Location: UK

by mikehhhhhhh

I have nothing to win or lose.

I simply shared what drove me to buy hookless wheels and that there were no hooked options for my criteria.

At best I hoped to show that it's not a black and white choice between hooks or not, but I have little interest in arguing about the fact, like I say, I'm just sharing my experience.

warthog101
Posts: 944
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

mikehhhhhhh wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:49 pm
I have nothing to win or lose.

I simply shared what drove me to buy hookless wheels and that there were no hooked options for my criteria.

At best I hoped to show that it's not a black and white choice between hooks or not, but I have little interest in arguing about the fact, like I say, I'm just sharing my experience.
I bought hookless because I intended to use them as gravel race wheels with 40c tyres. Light Bicycle WR50. They weren't that cheap. :(
Anyway I decided I am too old and cbfed racing anymore so have put road tyres on them. They are so wide they dont need to be pumped up very high. 55psi at each end with 28f 32r is heaps. Several thousand ks and various tyres. Unconcerned about unseating a tyre. It just aint going to happen at that pressure.
It seems cycling always needs something to rail against. Aluminium, Carbon fibre, disc brakes, clincher tyres. Now hookless. Use them or dont imo.

Hexsense
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

^
Curious how hookless WR50 was built.
My hooked WR50 has 25mm internal.
Do they remove hook and make internal width wider?
Or do they add more material to fill under the hook and keep 25mm internal?

warthog101
Posts: 944
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

Hexsense wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2024 2:31 am
^
Curious how hookless WR50 was built.
My hooked WR50 has 25mm internal.
Do they remove hook and make internal width wider?
Or do they add more material to fill under the hook and keep 25mm internal?
I haven't seen the hooked rims but I am guessing fill in under the hook. 25int 32ext. Fairly thick rim walls. No holes in the rim bed so no tape on mine.
I am aware the 28 no longer complies with etrto but I am not worried at the pressure I run at 76kg. Have a 30 on the way to try on the rear first.

Hexsense
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

I'm using 28mm GP5000 on my WR50 too. But since mine have hook. I use non tubeless GP5000 28mm without worry. If I go tubeless, I'll use wider tire on the rear just to limit risk. Maybe 30mm front as well, just maybe.

warthog101
Posts: 944
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

Hexsense wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2024 4:15 am
I'm using 28mm GP5000 on my WR50 too. But since mine have hook. I use non tubeless GP5000 28mm without worry. If I go tubeless, I'll use wider tire on the rear just to limit risk. Maybe 30mm front as well, just maybe.
I am hookless tubeless and have been for over 12months on those wheels.
28mm Corsa Next has been on the front a couple of thousand I guess. I also have a rim braked roadie that does more road work. The WR50s are used on the Revolt for road duties.
I remain unconcerned due to not needing to run much pressure due to the width of the rim and the resulting tyre volume.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12729
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Since we're talking about the WR50, it's worth noting that Light Bicycle does has some pretty low hookless max pressure ratings. The WR50 is only rated to 65psi.

warthog101
Posts: 944
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

It is actually 55psi according to their chart for a 28mm tyre.

WR-rims: 80psi (55psi for hookless)
The inflation limit of WR-rims is measured with 28mm tubeless setup.

https://www.lightbicycle.com/newsletter ... harts.html

Actually you may be right. What I posted was for gravel.
Here it is 65psi
https://www.lightbicycle.com/700C-tubel ... -bike.html
Max Tire Pressure (with 28C): Hook: 80psi/ 5.52bar, Hookless: 65psi/ 4.48 bar

by Weenie


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Hexsense
Posts: 3307
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Oh right. That's low.
Luckily I only want 58psi with 28mm tires and latex tubes.
30mm tires or tubeless could lower the pressure even more.
Seems like I could've bought hookless version and be okay as well.

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