The wheelbuilding thread

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

Moderator: robbosmans

Forum rules
The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
UpFromOne
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:23 am
Location: Olympic Nat'l Park, WA

by UpFromOne

Aesch wrote:
Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:54 am
tfayet wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:12 pm
tfayet wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:01 am
Hello
I'm looking for the lighter carbon tubular rim brake for road bike
Caracteristics I need:

- road bike
- rim brake
- Width: 25mm
- Depth: 38 to 40mm
- internal nipple
- asymmetric for rear / standard for front

Do you know who could produce the lighter rim?

Thanks
Any help ?
Maybe BTLOS?
Try EIE :
https://www.eiecarbon.com/goods/index/ROAD_BIKE

by Weenie


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UpFromOne
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:23 am
Location: Olympic Nat'l Park, WA

by UpFromOne

And a dumb q from me, what is "BTLOS" ?

Aesch
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:09 pm

by Aesch

Yes, those manufacturers build wheels as a system with optimalised spoke holes / angles etc. And they don't build wheels for longevity or specific use cases with heavier riders.

If you go 28h, cx rays all around should be fine. Alternative cx Ray fronts and cx rays non DS with sprint DS rear.

matteof93
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:06 am
Location: Piemonte, Italy

by matteof93

I am going to build my first custom wheelset for my road bike (disc brakes). Priorities: durability, ease of maintenance, aesthetics, stiffness, optimized for 28 to 32 mm tires.

Durability, stiffness, disc brakes -> 32 spokes front and rear
Ease of maintenance -> J-bend, 6-bolt rotors, round spokes, high spoke count for easy truing
Aesthetics -> 40 to 50 mm deep carbon rims
Tire compatibility 28 to 32 mm -> 21 mm inner rim width

why 32 spokes? 24 is too low for durable wheels ridden aggressively by an 80kg rider. 28 should be ok, but at that point it's better to go straight to 32 (weight penalty and aero penalty are not massive)
why 6 bolts? easier maintenance, cheaper rotors
why j-bend? improved wheel stiffness (higher spoke bracing angle)
why round spokes? at least 3x cheaper than bladed spokes (Sapim Race 0,77€...Sapim CX-Ray 2,51€)

Do you think I am going in the right direction? I will use DT 350 hubs and LightBicycle/Farsports/YishunBike rims. Final cost will be 700 to 800€.

UpFromOne
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:23 am
Location: Olympic Nat'l Park, WA

by UpFromOne

matteof93 wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:54 pm
(cut)
why j-bend? improved wheel stiffness (higher spoke bracing angle)
I'd agree with all you say except for the above statement.
Spoke angle relative to the pull point (lay term) depends on the hub, not the spokes.

Look carefully at the J-bend. The center of pressure is still the center of the hub flange hole.
That the spoke runs outward then 90 degree up does not really provide a wider "bracing angle" because the pull point is inside of the J-bend.
No such advantage to a J over a straight pull.
And in fact the straight pull head will have less deflections thus stiffer.

jesper2913
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:15 pm

by jesper2913

matteof93 wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:54 pm
I am going to build my first custom wheelset for my road bike (disc brakes). Priorities: durability, ease of maintenance, aesthetics, stiffness, optimized for 28 to 32 mm tires.

Durability, stiffness, disc brakes -> 32 spokes front and rear
Ease of maintenance -> J-bend, 6-bolt rotors, round spokes, high spoke count for easy truing
Aesthetics -> 40 to 50 mm deep carbon rims
Tire compatibility 28 to 32 mm -> 21 mm inner rim width

why 32 spokes? 24 is too low for durable wheels ridden aggressively by an 80kg rider. 28 should be ok, but at that point it's better to go straight to 32 (weight penalty and aero penalty are not massive)
why 6 bolts? easier maintenance, cheaper rotors
why j-bend? improved wheel stiffness (higher spoke bracing angle)
why round spokes? at least 3x cheaper than bladed spokes (Sapim Race 0,77€...Sapim CX-Ray 2,51€)

Do you think I am going in the right direction? I will use DT 350 hubs and LightBicycle/Farsports/YishunBike rims. Final cost will be 700 to 800€.
I think you are going in the right direction, but the wheel seems a bit overbuilt for durability.

28h is more than enough for your weight and rim choice. Especially if you choose straight pull spokes. J-bend spokes tend to brake at the J-bend.

6-bolt rotors, you might want to reconsider. Even if it's your first handbuilt wheelset, you'll want something nice. Same goes for spokes. Pich the bladed spokes.

The thing is, if your build is a success, you want to build another wheelset, because you will want something racier - thus more expensive. You might as well built your top wheelset right away and be done with it.

AC0
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:33 am

by AC0

I'm looking at Pillar 1422 straight pull bladed spokes. There are two versions PBA 1422 and PSR X-TRA 1422. The specs on the two seem very similar

https://www.pillarspoke.com/butted-aero
https://www.pillarspoke.com/psr-x-tra
Same T302+ material, same .95mmx2.2mm bladed section, same weight.

Only difference seems to be the PSR has a 2.2mm (instead of 2.0) butted section at the spoke head. This makes sense on a J-bend spoke but does it matter on a straight-pull? Do straight-pull spokes break at the head?

Aesch
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:09 pm

by Aesch

jesper2913 wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:38 am
matteof93 wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:54 pm
I am going to build my first custom wheelset for my road bike (disc brakes). Priorities: durability, ease of maintenance, aesthetics, stiffness, optimized for 28 to 32 mm tires.

Durability, stiffness, disc brakes -> 32 spokes front and rear
Ease of maintenance -> J-bend, 6-bolt rotors, round spokes, high spoke count for easy truing
Aesthetics -> 40 to 50 mm deep carbon rims
Tire compatibility 28 to 32 mm -> 21 mm inner rim width

why 32 spokes? 24 is too low for durable wheels ridden aggressively by an 80kg rider. 28 should be ok, but at that point it's better to go straight to 32 (weight penalty and aero penalty are not massive)
why 6 bolts? easier maintenance, cheaper rotors
why j-bend? improved wheel stiffness (higher spoke bracing angle)
why round spokes? at least 3x cheaper than bladed spokes (Sapim Race 0,77€...Sapim CX-Ray 2,51€)

Do you think I am going in the right direction? I will use DT 350 hubs and LightBicycle/Farsports/YishunBike rims. Final cost will be 700 to 800€.
I think you are going in the right direction, but the wheel seems a bit overbuilt for durability.

28h is more than enough for your weight and rim choice. Especially if you choose straight pull spokes. J-bend spokes tend to brake at the J-bend.

6-bolt rotors, you might want to reconsider. Even if it's your first handbuilt wheelset, you'll want something nice. Same goes for spokes. Pich the bladed spokes.

The thing is, if your build is a success, you want to build another wheelset, because you will want something racier - thus more expensive. You might as well built your top wheelset right away and be done with it.
This is exactly what I would say. I started out with a pair of good rims and built a wheelset with a cheap hubset and pillar spokes as a first trial (instead of building with the hub and spokes I'd prefer because I was afraid I'd botch it). This worked out well and exactly like the post I quote I've now just ordered the parts I want and will be building another wheelset (not bad to build more wheels anyway but if you intend to keep it I'd suggest to go for the parts you really like straight away).

Oh and I do choose J bend spokes because the erase hubs I now prefer to ride use the to optimise geometry of the wheel.

AC0
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:33 am

by AC0

Anyone build with bitex BX312 hubs and have a measurement for spoke offset?

Image from WheelPro calculator
sp-positive-offset.jpg
sp-positive-offset.jpg (11.54 KiB) Viewed 583 times
Sent from my SM-G996W using Tapatalk


Coks
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:51 am

by Coks

Hi,

I am looking to rebuild a pair of DT350 J-bend centerlock hubs 28/28 holes (12x100 and 12x142) with brand new LightBicycle AR45 rims (45mm depth / 21mm inner) and CX-Ray or DT Aerolite spokes.

The wheelset will be used mostly on country roads or light gravel path with 32 to 38 tires (already have a WR38 wheelset for more engaged gravel). I am ~80kg and will surely do some (road) light bikepacking with them. I want somethng sporty and stiff (laterally).

My question is about crossing choice ? 2 ; 3 ? Different pattern on drive side / non drive side ? What is the most relevant for you ?

Thanks in advance !

robertbb
Posts: 1943
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by robertbb

Coks wrote:
Thu Dec 22, 2022 5:30 pm
Hi,

I am looking to rebuild a pair of DT350 J-bend centerlock hubs 28/28 holes (12x100 and 12x142) with brand new LightBicycle AR45 rims (45mm depth / 21mm inner) and CX-Ray or DT Aerolite spokes.

The wheelset will be used mostly on country roads or light gravel path with 32 to 38 tires (already have a WR38 wheelset for more engaged gravel). I am ~80kg and will surely do some (road) light bikepacking with them. I want somethng sporty and stiff (laterally).

My question is about crossing choice ? 2 ; 3 ? Different pattern on drive side / non drive side ? What is the most relevant for you ?

Thanks in advance !
Have you already bought the rims? Are you set on them - or on the 45mm depth?

For such a build I would seriously consider one of the DT swiss options. I had originally considered the AR45's and some Yoleo's and ended up buying DT RR421's. Like you I have DT350 centrelocks, 28/28, and was also considering aerolite spokes.

They are a sensational rim, very advanced. I saw one cut up at a wheel builder's and the shaping and tapering of the wall thicknesses is truly impressive. IF they are too shallow there are other, deeper, DT options.

You've made a good choice to go with 28/28 - under spoked disc wheels are stupid. 2x front and rear is the way to go. The advantage of the offset rim (like the DR RR421's) is that the tensions will be evened out nicely and you just go with the same spoke all around - no need to go for thicker spokes on one side.

Nixster
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:30 pm

by Nixster

Any rim recommendation please for rim brake, tubeless compatible with machined brake track. Depth 30mm, carbon, light but not crazy? Internal width 20mm or thereabouts.
Will be going on Carbon Ti 20/24 hubs, 60kg rider.

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