Let's See Your Time Trial bike

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jekyll man
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by jekyll man

@ Mark Twain am i a bigger guy too because it looks like i've got a gut?
Unless i have a few ribs removed, its always going to look like that :roll:
ImageUntitled by jekyll man, on Flickr
35 miles into a 37 mile mountain TT, and its a false flat.


5'9" 142 lbs btw
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by Weenie


RyanH
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by RyanH

Here's the thread:

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/foru ... p?t=139992

TL;dr is:
  • Changes in temp can affect lap times (laps were roughly 7 min) by up to 10s or so. Environment variables is significant and without using the full Chung Method protocol, recording bariometric pressure, dew point, temp and altitude, trying to compare two efforts even at the same watts is fraught with problems.
  • Precision and consistency of recording devices is essential. I recommend the GSC-10 because I know how it works, one magnet click per revolution. I don't know how the hub ones work as it might be an accelerometer which is not going to be accurate enough.
  • Choose your course wisely. Find a course with minimal wind, little to no traffic interference and no need to brake or coast. Coasting will mess up your data since your PM will still read power for a few seconds. You want to pedal the entire time.
  • Constant wattage isn't necessary. You can actually do more analysis by varing the wattage as it lets you "tease out" Crr.
  • Don't test something once and move on. My goal was a minimum sample size of 5 and to see if that was consistent enough with itself. This right here will tell you if a Stages is good enough or not. When I started, I tried to use GPS and CdA estimates were fluctuating 10% or so for the same equipment and position. My guess is that you'll see something similar with the Stages. Read this for more on why I question anything provided by a Stages: https://www.thieme-connect.de/products/ ... 043-102945 (you seem to be taking training seriously and at this point, you're probably seeking small improvements now, so why use a device where you're not 100% sure that PR you set was due to the Stages or you?). Anyway, Chung method testing is a good way to test power meters too.
  • It may be useful to get a weather reading device like a Kestrel. I got one but only used it for a week or so as I found the nearest weather station read nearly the same. But, I also identified that the other close station was 5-10* higher because it was on top of the valley and the Rose Bowl was at the bottom so there would be big differences in temp even though we're only talking like 75 feet of elevation diff.
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CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

Ryan... cool info for sure. If i did it, I'd probably use the Rt. 29 course. that is a 10 Mile length of road, fairly flat with some small undulations up and down, but nothing that you'd coast down, unless you wanted to. Minimally, if I was gonna do it, I'd do one length and then a return leg north to see how the wind/elevation changes effected timing. Then I'd switch skinsuits and do it again. I get what you're saying that the larger the sample size the better. The larger sample the size helps to mitigate and weed out outlying times that might be effected by wind or slight (but still time effecting) changes in position. The reason I haven't done anything like this in previosu years was simply because, to me, the potential for position variation on a road bike, even when trying to maintain the same position is still rather big. On a TT bike, many more parts of the body are locked in via the aero bars. It might be worthy to give it a try now, but I don't know if I'd find them time to truly to study it and devote the time until after tmy season is done. I'd rather focus the the time on training and other things, during the season.

RyanH
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by RyanH

Loops usually work the best, so something around a small lake or something would be ideal as there's usually trees too that block wind. Well, a really small lake as the ideal circumference is around 2-3km. Longer is fine but it just means you're doing 40 minutes or so to get the requisite number of laps. Oh ya, I forgot that part, you want to do about 5 laps so Rt 29 probably wouldn't be ideal.

The analysis part is actually pretty quick and easy. With Golden Cheetah, it takes about 10 minutes or so. I usually made that my workout, so for example, mine were all done at tempo pace. I also contribute a lot of my improvment in fitness due to the 3 months of aero testing at Z3. So, it's doable as part of training. I think I even got acceptable results doing over/unders one day.
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MarkTwain
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by MarkTwain

CrankAddictsRich wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 11:23 am
MarkTwain wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 2:00 am
if you cannot see how much larger your thighs, upper body and gut is then this is a form of denial nothing can remedy. Ryan has no double chin either Rich. I'm sorry, you do.

so embrace it and move on.
No double chin here.. I think what you're seeing in that pic is some loose skin in my neck which is a result of me loosing weight. When I started this whole cycling thing, I was 240 pounds and couldn't ride 3 miles without throwing up. Now I'm 160-164, given the day and time of day that I step on the scale. No denial here, bro... life is work in progress and I'm moving. It's easy to sit on the internet and be anonymous, I'm not.
My anonymity has nothing to do with the advice here - given you were the one who started off by claiming issue with Ryan's statement. I see a chin and a gut. So something about this picture does not make sense. Regardless, you are still a bigger guy. And I stress there is nothing wrong with that. Keep improving your power year on year (as you have, albeit with a poor PM) and simply crush those courses. A fitting skinsuit would help too, as Jekyll Man pointed out.

JM, stop being obtuse. Yours does not compare to Rich's. But be obtuse if you want.

CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

MarkTwain wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 11:04 pm
My anonymity has nothing to do with the advice here - given you were the one who started off by claiming issue with Ryan's statement. I see a chin and a gut. So something about this picture does not make sense. Regardless, you are still a bigger guy. And I stress there is nothing wrong with that. Keep improving your power year on year (as you have, albeit with a poor PM) and simply crush those courses. A fitting skinsuit would help too, as Jekyll Man pointed out.

JM, stop being obtuse. Yours does not compare to Rich's. But be obtuse if you want.
Dude.. no need to defend your anonymity. You want to be anonymous, that's fine. It is probably because if people could see the real you, they would know you've never pinned a number on and you get dropped on your local coed C ride. The cool part about not being anonymous is that I know who I am and what I do, I don't have to hide behind some pretend name and a made up profile. But that's cool man, be anonymous and I'll stress there is nothing wrong with it. I know that muscle and fitness isn't knocking on my door, those years are long since gone and I know I'm not gonna be world tour skinny, no denial from me, but I've got no gut and no double chin. I'm not ever gonna win my local series' hill climb TT, that's fine with me too.

The point that JM is trying to make is that in the TT position, when you've been on the limit for 20 minutes and then you're emptying the tank to get every last ounce of energy out, you're gonna be breathing hard, breathing so hard your diaphragm is gonna be full. It is clear that he's raced and he knows this. It's clear you have not.

Here's Kwiato... another one of the bigger guys with a gut, right Twain?

Image

Jos Van Emden too...

Image

Oh man... Tony Martin too, say it isn't so.

Image

Pozzovivo.. no wonder he's been having trouble on the climbs.

Image

Ben King... what's in those Dimension data musette bags?

Image

As fun as this conversation has been though... let's get back to aero and bikes and cool stuff.

dudemanppl
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by dudemanppl

lolol you don't look anywhere close to those guys....

JScycle
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by JScycle

I agree with Rich in that he looks the same/similar to those pros. I don't think this is the forum to be having a go and someones body shape or size. He is posting photos of his bike and position for the benefit of this forum/post and you should be complimenting him not pointing out what you believe are flaws.

CrankAddictsRich
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by CrankAddictsRich

dudemanppl wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:14 am
lolol you don't look anywhere close to those guys....
You're missing my point.... I'm not saying I do. Those dudes judged by anyone in the world would be called skinny and yet, in those pictures they've got a gut, so what chance does a normal person stand? no much.

Nefarious86
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by Nefarious86

Ryan, is an outdoor velo suitable for this testing?

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RyanH
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by RyanH

I know indoor can be troublesome in some sense because there's often a circular current from other riders or even an individual after several laps. I'm guessing outdoor may be less prone to this but that's just a guess.

Regarding full finger gloves, I was riding 300+ miles per week at the time and with Campy, I was getting a lot of calluses. I despise wearing cutoff gloves so non padded MTB gloves were always the best compromise. Usually once I start getting over 15 hours a week I begin having a problem with that but that seems to not be the case with Shimano. With that being said, in the summer you'll often catch me with full finger gloves since the combination of sunblock and sweat make everything a bit slippery so I find gloves an improvement.
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Imaking20
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by Imaking20

CrankAddictsRich wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:55 am
Dude.. no need to defend your anonymity. You want to be anonymous, that's fine. It is probably because if people could see the real you, they would know you've never pinned a number on and you get dropped on your local coed C ride. The cool part about not being anonymous is that I know who I am and what I do, I don't have to hide behind some pretend name and a made up profile. But that's cool man, be anonymous and I'll stress there is nothing wrong with it. I know that muscle and fitness isn't knocking on my door, those years are long since gone and I know I'm not gonna be world tour skinny, no denial from me, but I've got no gut and no double chin. I'm not ever gonna win my local series' hill climb TT, that's fine with me too.

The point that JM is trying to make is that in the TT position, when you've been on the limit for 20 minutes and then you're emptying the tank to get every last ounce of energy out, you're gonna be breathing hard, breathing so hard your diaphragm is gonna be full. It is clear that he's raced and he knows this. It's clear you have not.

Here's Kwiato... another one of the bigger guys with a gut, right Twain?


As fun as this conversation has been though... let's get back to aero and bikes and cool stuff.
That's pretty nuts that a Mercx category allows such deep wheels and aero equipment! Here we're only allowed aero road helmets and <30mm wheels. No clip ons and no skinsuits. Also open cat.
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mentok
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by mentok

RyanH wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:18 am
Regarding full finger gloves, I was riding 300+ miles per week at the time and with Campy, I was getting a lot of calluses. I despise wearing cutoff gloves so non padded MTB gloves were always the best compromise. Usually once I start getting over 15 hours a week I begin having a problem with that but that seems to not be the case with Shimano. With that being said, in the summer you'll often catch me with full finger gloves since the combination of sunblock and sweat make everything a bit slippery so I find gloves an improvement.
Similarly, I do 450km a week and I never think twice about full fingers. It was just strange that someone pointed them out as odd and I suddenly realised how I'd totally normalised them :noidea:

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themidge
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by themidge

Re: full finger gloves,
I'm surprised you guys can wear full finger gloves in summer, even here in Scotland my hands get very warm in full gloves in the slightest heat :noidea:. I've found I get calluses on the inside of my thumbs from shimano 5700 levers (there's a plastic ridge in just the wrong place)
but I don't think any of you people (Ryan) will have that problem :D.

Rich: seeing as there are so many photos of you TTing, perhaps you could post one where you're breathing in? :wink:

by Weenie


MarkTwain
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by MarkTwain

dudemanppl wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:14 am
lolol you don't look anywhere close to those guys....
Don't try telling him that. He'll just try and reframe it to be about you and your anonymity. Complete and utter denial.


As for outdoor velodrome testing, did Robert Chung himself on here not say that an outdoor velodrome is fine? Or maybe it was on ST. Either way I am sure I have read him say that's not an issue.

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