Le club Time

Moderator: Moderator Team

Post Reply
m4k1
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:07 pm

by m4k1

it takes away stress from the steerer by countering the preassure from outside that comes from the stem by inserting the metal sleeve AND it takes away the preassure from the inside that comes from an expander, that sometimes has to be tightened quite much so it doesn´t slip. and i´ve never seen an expander that fits as properly inside the steerer as the time aluminum sleeve, so most expanders will warp the steerer a bit as well.
normal system: warping from outside and from inside. "quickset": nice even preassure. but it´s not quick, i give you that.
just my 2 cents

by Weenie


User avatar
kgt
Posts: 7820
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

It is quick every time you want to add or remove a spacer, replace a stem or just move it up or down for a less or more aggressive fit. You do not have to deal with the fork or the headset. These just stay in place.

m4k1
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:07 pm

by m4k1

true...but the main benefit is still the reduction of stresses in my opinion

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 8526
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Sounds like you’re talking about the top cap insert, the alloy tube that acts as support. That’s all fine. It needs that. I’m ok with that too.

It’s the godawful alloy threaded sleeve that is bonded to the steertube, which the threaded alloy headset top gets turned (with the little steel levers) like a manhole cover half a turn at a time. Is it needed? Why? Every other manufacturer is doing just fine without it. Are the Time steertubes inherently softer that they need that reinforcement, because that’s the only plausible explanation I would accept and say, ok then.
That bonded threaded sleeve also needs to be placed in a position dependent on frame size. A lot of faff, both on the production side and the user serviceability side, for nothing.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 8526
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

kgt wrote:It is quick every time you want to add or remove a spacer, replace a stem or just move it up or down for a less or more aggressive fit. You do not have to deal with the fork or the headset. These just stay in place.
Kgt, why don’t you do a little video of you adjusting your headset, just a smidge, on your Alpe d’Huez, just to show us how quick and easy it is.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

m4k1
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:07 pm

by m4k1

well...i could also argue that the great ride quality of time forks may come from a more compliant steerer that needs the support of an aluminum sleeve in the stem clamping area? but who am i to argue about stuff like that.
one thing though: i set up the quickset once and never had a problem since, so why cry and argue about it all the time? it´s a system that works, it´s just different

edit: have i officially closed it now? good....good

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 8526
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Yes, I’m “good” with your “good”.
Hugs?
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

m4k1
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:07 pm

by m4k1

you should ask kgt. i´m all good

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 8526
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Is that another “trap”?
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
kgt
Posts: 7820
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Calnago wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:22 pm
It’s the godawful alloy threaded sleeve that is bonded to the steertube, which the threaded alloy headset top gets turned (with the little steel levers) like a manhole cover half a turn at a time. Is it needed? Why?
That's the main concept. To have a steel threaded ring bonded on the carbon steerer on which the headset attach and not stress the steerer itself through friction, pressure etc. It is like a reconsideration of the steerer of the good old threaded steel fork. Or, if you like, it is like the threaded sleeves that Colnago and others use on their carbon bbs. This makes for a perfectly alligned headset which is lighter, more precise, safer. This is better engineering.
Is it that difficult to understand?

User avatar
kgt
Posts: 7820
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:29 am
Location: Athens, Greece

by kgt

Since I do not intend to argue any more stating the obvious... a nice, recent review of Time Alpe d'Huez:
https://www.lavelocita.cc/la-velocita-r ... -01-review
My experience of the frame is very close to his.

Image

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 8526
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

kgt wrote:
Calnago wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:22 pm
It’s the godawful alloy threaded sleeve that is bonded to the steertube, which the threaded alloy headset top gets turned (with the little steel levers) like a manhole cover half a turn at a time. Is it needed? Why?
That's the main concept. To have a steel threaded ring bonded on the carbon steerer on which the headset attach and not stress the steerer itself through friction, pressure etc. It is like a reconsideration of the steerer of the good old threaded steel fork. Or, if you like, it is like the threaded sleeves that Colnago and others use on their carbon bbs. This makes for a perfectly alligned headset which is lighter, more precise, safer. This is better engineering.
Is it that difficult to understand?
It’s not at all difficult to understand. I get it. Once it’s set up it’s fine and it works. It’s just that in the absence of steertubes constantly breaking, then it’s just an unnecessary over engineered system that adds weight and complexity. And steertubes aren’t breaking everywhere. So, why not enjoy a simpler, lighter, far more easily serviceable solution. Hence my “Why?” question. The “better” solution in my opinion is always the simplest one that does the job effectively. If it veers from that, then the benefits should outweigh any added weight and complexities that have to be incurred. In this case, it doesn’t.
Cheers! Grappa?
Last edited by Calnago on Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

User avatar
wheelsONfire
Posts: 2950
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:15 am
Location: NorthEU

by wheelsONfire

Calnago wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:56 am
Ok, so in the end he didn’t really say much. But he did seem like a nice chap.
On that whole bit about “stiff wheels being the cause of more brake rub than the frame”, I’m not really buying that. Here’s another real world test I did... No “theories”, just actual riding. I put a set of Lightweights on my C59, pre Melenstein so the ~50+mm rim depth. I rode it under stress and hills until I had the brake pads set as close to the rim as possible with no rubbing under any scenario. Then, I threw on my Bora Ultra Twos, essentially the same rim width as the Lightweights. Guess what... rubbing all over the place and I had to release the brake pads significantly before it disappeared satisfactorily. So, if you were to believe Lightweights are much stiffer than Boras, and I too believe this, then that completely contradicts the “stiff wheels cause more brake rub” theory. Both wheels used Campy skewers. The reviewer tried to explain away the brake rub by using this theory and saying ENVE wheels could have been the cause because they’re so stiff. Hmmm, I’m not so sure but of course that’s what TIME would like him to say. I don’t know if the cause for brake rub in his test ride was due to the wheels or the frame, but if that theory is what he’s resting his case on, then I’d want to investigate a bit further.
I'm late to the party, but i think you are right on!
I ride same wheelset with my new Ax EVO as the previous. With the previous i had brake rub if pads weren't further apart.
With the new EVO, i have pads close and no brake rub.

It's same with both my wheelsets (Ax Premium 38T and Easton Aero 55T).

Never_the_less, i would really like to try both Scylon and ADH.
Bikes:

Ax Lightness Vial EVO Race (2018.12.21)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156137
Paduano Racing Fidia (kind of shelved)
Open *UP* (2016.04.14)


Ex bike; Vial EVO D

User avatar
FredV
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:03 pm
Location: Lyon, France

by FredV

Here is my 2016 Skylon (XL size, not Aktiv fork). Nothing fancy except the 180mm crank, but I really love the responsiveness of this bike.

20190428_171315.jpg
Skylon


by Weenie


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post