MichaelK wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:02 pm
Why not make the brake cable exit the frame on the underside of the top-tube pointing downwards?! Reduces the distance and number of curves needed.
Anyway, excellent write-up Calnago. Many thanks!
@MichaelK... TIME wants you on on their engineering staff. That is exactly what's being done on most frames with dropped stays and rim brakes these days. It should have been done from Day 1, but I guess it takes a while for the engineering mistakes to get all the way through production and then onto bikes so people can actually build them up outside of a computer to see what practical aspects have been overlooked. I talked about this in my C64 build thread at length. Showed some examples... here's an example of why I don't like the design... and while the lines are now smoother to the brake calipers themselves, the uglinesss of the cable crossing between the top tube and the seat tube is just something that doesn't appeal to my aesthetic senses in the least. Depending on the size of the frame, slope of the toptube and amout of drop the stays have, the degree that comes into play can vary. At least with this Skylon, the routing may have a fairly aggressive bend but it doesn't look nearly as bad as the example below... (and I should say, the routing on the Skylon is not aggressive enough to compromise functionality in any meaningful way)...
I see @kgt has found some examples of the lowered exit port on the top tube as well, which is good. That's where it should be. The line can't be too straight to the caliper however, as there needs to be enough slack for the caliper to do it's thing without wanting to pull the cable housing away from it's stop, although in the case of the continuous cable housing run through the top tube of the Scylon, it would just pull the entire housing through and settle in at some rather unslightly place, like my C59 used to do before I fashioned my own stops out of simple o-rings. But if there was a hard stop at the exit point, then there needs to be a little slack in the length of housing from the exit to the caliper. Placing the exit port further forward can also help with the path to the caliper, but then you run the risk of it interfereing with your leg. Of course, you could always go disc brakes with dropped stays and that issue goes away altogether, arguably replaced by others.
So, if TIME has relocated the exit port for the rear brake housing on their dropped seatstay rim bikes, then Hip Hip Hooray. The bike in my post was brand new, retail, with all the bits and pieces in their respective bags ready for build. I don't know why @kgt would even suggest it could be a "demo" or something less than their "finest". Well, I know, but that's just grasping at straws. And if they've redone the grommet, then double "yay"; when did they actually get around to doing that pray tell? Because a few months ago they weren't even acknowldeging there was a problem, and the only picture they could send of one was installed backwards. The resolution is too bad in the pic @kgt posted of the special edition skylon for me to tell if it's in backwards or not. I know it can be done, because I did it on this build, but to date it is the one and only Skylon build that I've seen where it's actually inserted correctly. And what a pain it was. Now, please please tell me they've changed the seat clamp from that awful design I had to deal with. Please, tell me... have they??
And what about the awful front derailleur hanger design. Can't they just rivet a nice one in place perfectly positioned that will accommodate at least the three main crankset configurations without having to remove and reinstall it if you want to use different cranks. Hopefully they've changed that as well.
And @kgt wonders why I'm not jumping up and down raving how great this frame is. Well firstly, I'm not working for a magazine or other online publication beholding to advertising dollars for my existence. Secondly, it's tough to feel all warm and fuzzy after building up a frame like this with all the nits and niggles that shouldn't have been there in the first place. For all @kgt's bashing about frames from China, he may want to think a little bit more about TIME's own quality control these days. But on a positive note... well, I already mentioned that if this was a mechanical drivetrain, setup (at least the running of the derailleur cables) would have been a breeze, due to the continuous end to end run of hard plastic liner from entry port to exit ports in the frame. Just insert the derailleur cables and push till they come out the other end. But this was a Campy EPS install, and I've highlighted the issues with that in my previous post. The paint... it appears to be very good quality, although the graphics leave a lot to be desired imo, and of course that's subjective. Leej88's balck skylon looks great for example imo. Nothing to argue about there, was just giving my own opinion which of course reflects my own tastes. Another person may love the graphics on this frame as is, so be it. And what I particularly like is that the matte finish is not just matte paint but appears to have a matte clearcoat on top of it as well, like my C59 does. This really aids in the cleaning and upkeep of matte frames. The frames where there's just a coat of matte paint with no matte clear over top are a pain in the ass to keep clean. Let's see, what else can I say on a positive note... it's solid (already said that), unlike some previous frames from TIME. I'm not going to get into whether the RTM carbon thing is better or not, because I don't believe it is. It's simply what they started with back in the 90's and have held dearly to it ever since, while carbon manufacturing technology has marched on. It would be very costly for them to change over at this point, and as long as they can convince a few people that the way they do it is better than everyone else, then that remains their one thing they must hold onto dearly. One might say the same thing about Colnago and their lugged frames to be fair. But they can toss that SlowSet headset into the trashcan and be better off if you ask me.
Hmmm... ok, and this comment isn't specific to TIME, but it's like if you ask the woman (or man) who just bought a new car what they like about it, chances are that many will say stuff like "Well, I like the looks of it, it's pretty, and I like the commercials cuz they say it's the best car out there". But if you ask the mechanic who works on cars day in day out the same questions, you're probably going to get a whole lot more "under the hood" type reasons why he likes or dislikes certain cars over others. Same with bikes. But if you never ever work on your own bike, you might not even care. Fine. Oh, and TIME hasn't been making bikes since 1987... that's when they formed the company and made pedals. My first clipless pedals were in fact from TIME. But they didn't start making frames until the mid 90's, so not that long in the game relatively speaking. And now the company is owned by Rossignol. I don't know, but can you use RTM carbon technology in the production of skis? I hope so, for their sake. Sorry, the few positives are vastly overshadowed by my sour experience in building this frame.