The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
alcatraz
Posts: 3379
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:37 am
Those numbers aren't the amount of deflection but rather inverse of it. My tensiometer works the same way. A higher reading means less deflection.

The graph I posted earlier was done by Pillar. I think they made a mistake and labeled the Y axis as mm deflection.

Sent from my KFMAWI using Tapatalk
I was thinking the same thing a few days ago...

But why do lower tensions mean lower readings hmm? Shouldn't it be the opposite then?

by Weenie


alcatraz
Posts: 3379
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Timmy269 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:29 am
How do I measure the pitch of the front wheel. On the Dt swiss calculator I can choose 2 hubs 100mm non disc straight pull 2020+ or 100mm non disc straight pull. The flange of the 2020+ model is correct but the pitch is not I think. And also my wheels are not 2020+ model but much earlier.
Try the custom hub and look at the extra info next to that data field you're wondering about. They have pictures to explain it better.

Timmy269
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:34 pm

by Timmy269

I did that bit the picture on there site is more like my rear hub
Attachments
Screenshot_20200925-080539.jpg

alcatraz
Posts: 3379
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Ok so for a radially laced flange PCD, put a spoke in the hub and measure the distance between the exit (use a marker or tape) and the bottom of the head. Then you can measure the hub diameter at the exit holes, and subtract two times that value.

This is very useful if you have odd spoke counts like 18h front or 21h rear (nds).

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LouisN
Posts: 2988
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Location: Canada

by LouisN

Question to wheelbuilders: Did you try carbon tubeless hookless rims without spoke holes ?
I'm scratching my head on the effective technique to bring the nipples from the valve hole to all the spoke holes ... :?
Please share :mrgreen:
EDIT: I found this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXeZfRD-fQ4

Louis :)

bm0p700f
in the industry
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by bm0p700f

Steel spoke insert and a magnet.

efeballi
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:50 pm
Location: Body in Milano, mind in Istanbul

by efeballi

LouisN wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:33 pm
Question to wheelbuilders: Did you try carbon tubeless hookless rims without spoke holes ?
I'm scratching my head on the effective technique to bring the nipples from the valve hole to all the spoke holes ... :?
Please share :mrgreen:
EDIT: I found this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXeZfRD-fQ4

Louis :)
The tie-ups for bread packs have iron in them, cut one around double the length of the nipple, bend it into two and jam it inside the nipple from where the spoke enters. A nail of the correct diameter also works when cut to length. Laced a tubeless (no spoke holes) wheelset this way.

Sent from my Ultegra STI lever using gear cables
SHUT UP LEGS
2015 Giant Propel Advanced
2015 Cannondale Supersix Evo
2013 KTM Strada mod. (totaled)
2011 Pinarello Dogma 60.1(loaner)
2011 Scott SUB 45(sold)

Politecnico di Milano Ingegneria Meccanica

snny
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:52 am

by snny

Hey,

I'm looking for input on 2 wheel builds for a touring/bikepacking bike. The system weight will not exceed 100kg and is more in the 90-95 range.

Build 1:
700c wheels for 30-32mm tubeless rubber, used 90% on tarmac, 10% hardpack gravel, occasional light singletrack trail.
rims: Velocity Aileron
hubs: Shimano RS770
spokes: 28/28 Sapim CX-Ray (CX-Sprint?)

Build 2:
650b wheels for up to 2.1" tubeless rubber. Use will be various forms of gravel and trail, possibly in remote areas, so these should be dependable and robust.
rims: Kinlin RD 3FT (not sure if I can source these)
hubs: Shimano RS770 (or cheap out with RS470?)
spokes: 32/32 Sapim CX-Ray (CX-Sprint?)

I'm pretty set on the rim and hub choices for the 700c build (Aileron for slight bling, love the serviceability of Shimano cup and cone), but I can be convinced if you think I could do better. Not 100% sure on the spokes though.

Any insight on RS470 vs RS770? Any differences besides weight?
Last edited by snny on Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Use cx sprints for the first build. For the second why? Forget pretending these are aero wheels. The tyres are not aero. The set i started yesterday have sapim force spokes. I have the kinlin rd 3ft 650b rims in stock in 28h. 32h is next weeks delivery

snny
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:52 am

by snny

Thanks for the tip on kinlin availability. Although I've been covering all sorts of terrain on my 24/28 rim brake bikepacking machine with zero problems for years, and could probably get away with a 28/28 on the "robust" 650b build as well, I'm thinking of going 32, just for the peace of mind. (btw, the 650b 28h kinlin rd 3ft show as "sold out" as well, only 700c/28h available).

TBH I don't have any aero ambitions for the 1st build either. Should I maybe go with simpler spokes and pocket some money there as well?

I see that you also stock RS470 hubs. Any thoughts on these?

alcatraz
Posts: 3379
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

The smaller the wheel diameter, the fewer spokes needed for the same reliability.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Rs470 are cheap and cheerful. Service them preventitively for long life.

24h have yet to be ordered. 28h 650b has been listed.

efeballi
Posts: 495
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:50 pm
Location: Body in Milano, mind in Istanbul

by efeballi

snny wrote:Hey,

I'm looking for input on 2 wheel builds for a touring/bikepacking bike. The system weight will not exceed 100kg and is more in the 90-95 range.

Build 1:
700c wheels for 30-32mm tubeless rubber, used 90% on tarmac, 10% hardpack gravel, occasional light singletrack trail.
rims: Velocity Aileron
hubs: Shimano RS770
spokes: 28/28 Sapim CX-Ray (CX-Sprint?)

Build 2:
650b wheels for up to 2.1" tubeless rubber. Use will be various forms of gravel and trail, possibly in remote areas, so these should be dependable and robust.
rims: Kinlin RD 3FT (not sure if I can source these)
hubs: Shimano RS770 (or cheap out with RS470?)
spokes: 32/32 Sapim CX-Ray (CX-Sprint?)

I'm pretty set on the rim and hub choices for the 700c build (Aileron for slight bling, love the serviceability of Shimano cup and cone), but I can be convinced if you think I could do better. Not 100% sure on the spokes though.

Any insight on RS470 vs RS770? Any differences besides weight?
I second the suggestion of not using CX-Rays. Other than that, with such shallow depth rims, maybe you could consider offset rims, especially for the front wheels. It would help a bit with the tension balance of DS/NDS spokes.

edit: forgot to add, especially if you don't carry a spoke wrench on your rides, breaking a spoke could render the wheel unrideable if you go for 28/28 on Build 2. This also depends on frame clearances. As a rule of thumb, more spokes=less out-of-true if a spoke breaks.

Sent from my Ultegra STI lever using gear cables
SHUT UP LEGS
2015 Giant Propel Advanced
2015 Cannondale Supersix Evo
2013 KTM Strada mod. (totaled)
2011 Pinarello Dogma 60.1(loaner)
2011 Scott SUB 45(sold)

Politecnico di Milano Ingegneria Meccanica

ultreia
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:31 pm

by ultreia

Hello,

I built two rear wheels with RAR9 and RAR12. In both wheels the rear derailleur touch the spokes on the biggest cog. Could it be that the hubs are not compatible with the frame (Scott Addict 2017)? Bad built? I have two wheels more, Mavic Aksium and custom build with DT350 straight pull and both has no problems... Any idea?

Pinguin
Posts: 214
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:28 pm

by Pinguin

ultreia wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:04 am
Hello,

I built two rear wheels with RAR9 and RAR12. In both wheels the rear derailleur touch the spokes on the biggest cog. Could it be that the hubs are not compatible with the frame (Scott Addict 2017)? Bad built? I have two wheels more, Mavic Aksium and custom build with DT350 straight pull and both has no problems... Any idea?
I also ride Rar12 on Addict 2016 without issue

by Weenie


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