The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
alcatraz
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by alcatraz

If I remember correctly 20h 2x and 24h 2x are similar. Neither take full advantage like 28h does with 3x.

Even if 2x 28h has angles closer to a say 24h 1x, because of the extra spokes the extra torque vectors all add up. So that's probably why there isn't a problem.

I'm curious to look at some older race wheels. I suspect they are all basically radial but with high counts.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Your argument seems to be if 28h is not 3x is radial. That not true.

by Weenie


alcatraz
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by alcatraz

My argument is that 2x can be just as "radial" as 1x if you compare certain spoke counts. 1x is looked down upon but not 2x. I find that distinction interesting.

The difference is that 2x always has more spokes in such a comparison which would compensate for any possible related issues with that I guess.

My point may be moot, but I still appreciate you reading and commenting. Back to the drawing board. :lol:

robust2
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:03 pm

by robust2

Hi All,
First time post here after gathering knowledge for quite some time :)
After building some MTB XC wheels and a singlespeed wheelset, I'd like to try my hand at a slightly nucer "allroad" wheel. Most likely DT Swiss 350 disc TA hubs (with a campagnolo freehub body added afterwards) on sapim race or d-light spokes but the rim choice is still quite undecided. Ideally I'd like to land on something 30-35mm high and 26-28ish wide, but there doesn't seem to be a ton of choice.
Light Bicycle has some nice carbon rims that match exactly that spec (AR36), but it would take more than 2 months to get them apparently. In terms of alloy rims, I don't find many both wide and slightly deeper disc rims. DT Swiss RR521, Kinlin XR31 or Aforce AL33 (hard to find in disc version atm?) seem to be my best shots. Any other rims I'm overlooking? I see a mention of something similar on Kinlin's website but it's not for sale anywhere: https://kinlin.com.tw/rd-3ft/

Aeo
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by Aeo

Velocity Aileron

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svendsvin
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Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:27 pm

by svendsvin

robust2 wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:43 am
I see a mention of something similar on Kinlin's website but it's not for sale anywhere: https://kinlin.com.tw/rd-3ft/
Image
Nice find.
I don't think there is a disc version of Aforce al-33 (but there is one with black/dark braketracks)
never mind. I see they made these later after the original release
Last edited by svendsvin on Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

Yes that rim is available. They are on my site.

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svendsvin
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by svendsvin

bm0p700f wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:57 pm
Yes that rim is available. They are on my site.
Do you have direct link? I cant seem to find them...


alcatraz
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by alcatraz

That's a cool rim. Does it have brake tracks?

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

No disc only.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

alcatraz wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:42 am
If I remember correctly 20h 2x and 24h 2x are similar. Neither take full advantage like 28h does with 3x.

Even if 2x 28h has angles closer to a say 24h 1x, because of the extra spokes the extra torque vectors all add up. So that's probably why there isn't a problem.

I'm curious to look at some older race wheels. I suspect they are all basically radial but with high counts.
You can become obsessed with details and loose the bigger picture. Getting the flange exit angle for the spokes as close as possible to 90 degrees does not make the wheel better by itself. With small flanges it can lead to spoke failure. It work well for larger flanges with a pcd of around 60mm or bigger. most rim brake hubs they use j bend spokes use smaller flanges hence 2x is better. Disc brake hubs with small flanges are best avoided for this reason.

I still.stand by the statement for rim brake wheels humans are simply not strong enough to make 3x 28h lacing a neccisity. Longer spokes also lead to more flex which in turn increases spoke fatigue rate all to maximise flange exit angle. For large flange hubs disc brake hubs and sp hubs the spoke crossing flange/head of the spoke concerns are a non issue so 3x on 28h rims on balance is preferable.

Big picture and all that.

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F45
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by F45

What about when hub makers scallop out the flange? Weakens the flange a bit I'd think. But I can't recall what the fea model looks like.

Image

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

If i build the miche primato hubs with a 46mm pcd 28h 3x the spoke almost cross heads. The brush the side of the spoke head and i have never liked the bend in the spoke . I maybe over worrying about this.

Cut out i suppose help and its probably why shimano have done this for there small flange mtb disc brake hubs. It does make sense.

by Weenie


alcatraz
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by alcatraz

With a 50pcd 14h flange (28/21h) laced 3x the spoke heads don't contact the opposite spoke. It may be tangential but the next spoke drilling is still 360/14 degrees away and has a trajectory ~360/14 degree different.

I'd expect some other configurations to be trickier when the spokes go past 90deg and start to aim towards the next hole in the flange.

I was going to write 20h 2x but that doesn't appear to be one of them. I forgot which one.
Last edited by alcatraz on Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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