The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
alcatraz
Posts: 3182
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

The strength numbers (if we assume they're accurate) are not absolute but in relation to crossectional area. A cx-sprint has more area so it will be stronger.

Just estimating here but lets say 25% more area and 8% less strength/mm2.

by Weenie


bm0p700f
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

I forgot about that point. Tempted to write an blog post about wheel myths and other lore.

Marin
Posts: 3656
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

Basically, all steel has the same stiffness (not strenght!) so you can calculate spoke stiffness using the cross sectional area.

skitlets
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:51 am

by skitlets

NovemberDave wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 1:45 pm
Many people on this thread will be more familiar with wheel building than the intended audience for these videos, but we just posted two videos of how we lace, tension, and true radial front wheels (the simplest build). Part 1 https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/blog ... al-tension and Part 2 https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/blog ... final-true.
This was great. I recently built my first wheelset and made a few mistakes. This will help a lot when I get around to the next pair.

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F45
Posts: 1030
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:08 am

by F45

Wow, not really ww is it? :shock:

Image

bobones
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

Looks like Dura Ace hubs are getting harder to find with the continuing demise of rim brakes so I am thinking about building a set of nice wheels for myself using DA hubs and Light Bicycle rims before they disappear altogether. I would appreciate if someone could review this potential build for errors or gotchas.

Dura Ace 9000 18H Front
Dura Ace 9000 24H Rear
Lightbicycle AR46, Non-disc, high TG, glossy, UD 18H + 24H, 28 wide (21 internal), ERD 568
Sapim CX-Ray 18 x 268mm for 0 cross front silver
Sapim CX-Ray 12 x 272mm for 2 cross DS silver
Sapim CX-Ray 12 x 274mm for 2 cross NDS silver
42 silver brass nipples

Should come in around 1520g for £750 or so.

I weigh around 73kgs and currently ride 50mm deep, 25 mm wide (18.5 int) matte UD rims on Novatech SP hubs with 23 mm Vittoria Corsa Speed tubeless tyres.

Anyone care to comment?

alcatraz
Posts: 3182
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

It will be a nice wheelset I think. Don't know about those spoke lengths though. Measure twice or three times if you have to, before ordering.

For tubeless you might want to order rims without holes in the rim bed. I'd be tempted to do it but I kind of like internal nipples now.

I'm neither heavy enough nor ride crappy enough roads to really benefit from tubeless.

jever98
Posts: 996
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:02 pm
Location: Seattle

by jever98

bobones wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:30 pm
Looks like Dura Ace hubs are getting harder to find with the continuing demise of rim brakes so I am thinking about building a set of nice wheels for myself using DA hubs and Light Bicycle rims before they disappear altogether. I would appreciate if someone could review this potential build for errors or gotchas.

Dura Ace 9000 18H Front
Dura Ace 9000 24H Rear
Lightbicycle AR46, Non-disc, high TG, glossy, UD 18H + 24H, 28 wide (21 internal), ERD 568
Sapim CX-Ray 18 x 268mm for 0 cross front silver
Sapim CX-Ray 12 x 272mm for 2 cross DS silver
Sapim CX-Ray 12 x 274mm for 2 cross NDS silver
42 silver brass nipples

Should come in around 1520g for £750 or so.

I weigh around 73kgs and currently ride 50mm deep, 25 mm wide (18.5 int) matte UD rims on Novatech SP hubs with 23 mm Vittoria Corsa Speed tubeless tyres.

Anyone care to comment?
Your erd is off. Light bicycle gives 548 and I measured 552.4 with the Musson method (includes nipple head and in my case spoke washers).
----
No longer in the industry

bobones
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

jever98 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:40 pm
Your erd is off. Light bicycle gives 548 and I measured 552.4 with the Musson method (includes nipple head and in my case spoke washers).
Thanks, not sure where I got 568 from!

If I am using 548 and get 264.9 and 262.7 for rear, and spokes are only available in even lengths, am I better to round up to 266 and 264 or round to nearest even of 264 and 262?

I am thinking thin CX-rays (like lasers) will stretch a little so rounding down to nearest even will be fine.

On the otherhand, with aluminium nipples, it's better to be a little too long than too short to support the nipple head properly.

alcatraz
Posts: 3182
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

bobones wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:36 am

I am thinking thin CX-rays (like lasers) will stretch a little so rounding down to nearest even will be fine.

On the otherhand, with aluminium nipples, it's better to be a little too long than too short to support the nipple head properly.
Bingo! These are issues I still struggle with.

I have a system now that I measure my ERD myself and add my own little "offset" that I've found to measure consistently.

Using other ERD measurements is a gamble.

Also straightpull hubs with eyeballed measurements is also a gamble. Using a spoke length calculator/chart that's new to you, is a gamble.

I find peace in not rushing and ordering good value spokes like CN424 (taiwanese cx-ray's) and know it won't cost a fortune to get the right length should I have made a mistake. They're only 1 usd each. 4.2gr, reliable etc. Can't fault them. I've broken nipples and had spokes twist but never break. Even after reusing them. I'm really impressed.
Last edited by alcatraz on Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

alcatraz
Posts: 3182
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

dp

bobones
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

Cool, thanks. I'll check those out those CN 424s. Do you get yours on AliExpress, and how long do you wait for delivery?

alcatraz
Posts: 3182
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

I live in China so I get them from some chinese seller that imports them from Taiwan.

If you find cx-ray/pillar1420/cn424 for a good price they're all pretty much equivalent.

jever98
Posts: 996
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:02 pm
Location: Seattle

by jever98

bobones wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:36 am
jever98 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:40 pm
Your erd is off. Light bicycle gives 548 and I measured 552.4 with the Musson method (includes nipple head and in my case spoke washers).
Thanks, not sure where I got 568 from!

If I am using 548 and get 264.9 and 262.7 for rear, and spokes are only available in even lengths, am I better to round up to 266 and 264 or round to nearest even of 264 and 262?

I am thinking thin CX-rays (like lasers) will stretch a little so rounding down to nearest even will be fine.

On the otherhand, with aluminium nipples, it's better to be a little too long than too short to support the nipple head properly.
I use several spoke calculators and compare. Musson's and DT Swiss give calculated lengths and account for spoke thickness
----
No longer in the industry

Aeo
Posts: 210
Joined: Wed May 25, 2016 2:06 am

by Aeo

bobones wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:30 pm
Looks like Dura Ace hubs are getting harder to find with the continuing demise of rim brakes so I am thinking about building a set of nice wheels for myself using DA hubs and Light Bicycle rims before they disappear altogether. I would appreciate if someone could review this potential build for errors or gotchas.

Dura Ace 9000 18H Front
Dura Ace 9000 24H Rear
Lightbicycle AR46, Non-disc, high TG, glossy, UD 18H + 24H, 28 wide (21 internal), ERD 568
Sapim CX-Ray 18 x 268mm for 0 cross front silver
Sapim CX-Ray 12 x 272mm for 2 cross DS silver
Sapim CX-Ray 12 x 274mm for 2 cross NDS silver
42 silver brass nipples

Should come in around 1520g for £750 or so.

I weigh around 73kgs and currently ride 50mm deep, 25 mm wide (18.5 int) matte UD rims on Novatech SP hubs with 23 mm Vittoria Corsa Speed tubeless tyres.

Anyone care to comment?
Are you aware of this: https://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/whe ... ers_v2.pdf

by Weenie


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