The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Smitty2k1
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:15 pm

by Smitty2k1

Double post

by Weenie


dim
Posts: 590
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:25 am
Location: Cambridge UK

by dim

bm0p700f wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:53 am
126mm spacing will take a 7 speed or it should, that after all is the point of 126mm spacing.

Spreading the stays is possible but you may still have chain/sprocket clearance issues. Spreading the stats I easy but then aligning the dropouts is a bit more tricky. This is more important if fitting 11 speed.

However you have an original bike in good condition so why molest it. When customers come and ask for the stats to be spread I always say yes that's possible but I have options to keep it original. I generally manage to persuade people to go with an alternative.

For example if you used a 126mm spaced hub with a free hub like an older shimano set you can go 9 speed. Take a miche 10 speed shimano cassette perhaps the 12-29t and remove the 14t sprocket. You then have a cassette that's fits into the 7 speed freehub but has 9 sprocket with 10 speed spacing.

Lots of solutions with out spreading stays which keeps the bike as it was built.
it's been a while since this post, but I have eventually managed to save up enough and have had a wheelset built for my Miyata 1000 ....

HED Belgium Plus rims (32/32) ... (32 is the max spoke count they make and weight limit is 105kg .... this is ample for my touring as I weigh 73Kg and will loose a few Kg once I start training properly again...

Front Hub: Son 28 dynamo hub

Rear Hub: Royce (126mm spacing so I am very happy and bought it new direct from Royce)

I've fitted Continental GP5000 TL (tubeless in 32mm wide)

I've opted for 6 speed (I had 5 speed)

lights: Supernova E3 Triple dynamo lights

still to get: (I need to replace the racks with Tubus.... I need to get the Ortlieb front and rear pannier bags and I need to get something to connect to the Son 28 so as to charge a powerbank

The new wheels have made a huge difference and I'm very happy (It has cost me a lot of money so far)

my main tour for next year will be 700km along the Wild Atlanic Way in Ireland (wild camping at times and plenty of fishing ... I am a keen fisherman and have bought 2 multi piece fishing rods and camping gear etc etc)
Trek Emonda SL6
Miyata One Thousand

bm0p700f
in the industry
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

Fine choice of hubs. I would have used the cheaper h plus son rims or silver kinlins taken the family out for two evening out with the change.

I weight 12kg more than you a d on my loaded bike there a 24 spoke rear wheel hense some count vs weight is somewhat vague.

Nixster
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:30 pm

by Nixster

Hi all

I am converting a rear wheel from a Bitex 2:1 hub to a Novatec AS522SB conventional straight pull hub. Lacing dictated by the hub is 2x both sides. 24 spokes total. Rim is a Farsports 50x25 tubular. As far as I can tell it’s drilled centrally.

I am intending moving to internal Sapim nipples. Is this feasible as the rim is external currently? Are there any specific things I should be doing eg rim washers? Anything else to watch for?

If anyone had a fractional cross value for the hub that would be greatly appreciated too!

Cheers
N

alcatraz
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

The rim could be 2:1 specific which means it's incompatible with 1:1. Spoke holes are angled right,right,left instead of left,right. If they aren't angled it's fine to swap configuration.

If it's drilled for external nipples it's unsuitable for internal nipples. Internal use a smaller hole diameter.

The novatec 522 uses small 6802 bearings which will wear out very fast. Use ntn/skf bearings to maximize bearing life. Unsuitable for heavy riders and/or bad roads.

Why do you want swap hubs? Which bitex hub are you on right now?

Nixster
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:30 pm

by Nixster

The Novatec hubs are fine, I have 2 winters on them on my winter bike on another wheel set.
The Bitex hubs have poor bracing angles exacerbated by the limited number of nds spokes so the wheel is flexing a lot, causing brake rub.
I realise that the holes for internal nipples will be smaller as they are sized for the spokes not the barrel of the nipple however is the bearing area of the nipple on the rim any less? And can washers compensate for this? Easier I know to just use external nips again but there are marginal aero gains to be had 😀

Anybody done this?

alcatraz
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

You sound knowledgeable to me. Apart from the drill diameter I think you'll be fine.

Has anyone tried to convert a rim from external to internal nipples? How did it go? I suspect an internal nipple doesn't have the necessary profile to center.

It'll probably work but might look odd as the nipple would be visible. But it's maybe just something a wheelbuilder would notice. If the rim were flexy (alloy) it might be a problem since some spokes can become completely unloaded and maybe move around if there's enough space to move sideways.

If you want a compromise you can try pillar dsn/dt squorx nipples. They are external but they aren't as long as common external nipples. I like to use these for a different reason and it's because more of the thread is over the bulge. It means that should the nipple crack below the bulge the wheel won't fail. There is enough thread to hold it. I found it's a good way to succeed with alloy nipples. You need to calculate spoke lengths according to the desired nipple type.

bobo100
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:29 am

by bobo100

I'm considering Bitex hubs for my all season wheelset. I will have LB rims 46mm (21mm internal, 28mm external).
I'd like to build wheels on Sapim Cx Ray. I'm not sure which hubs should I take.
Bitex BX 106 or Bitex BX 306.
What do you think about those hubs? :)

Etienne
Posts: 308
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:41 am
Location: France

by Etienne

bobo100 wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:37 pm
I'm considering Bitex hubs for my all season wheelset. I will have LB rims 46mm (21mm internal, 28mm external).
I'd like to build wheels on Sapim Cx Ray. I'm not sure which hubs should I take.
Bitex BX 106 or Bitex BX 306.
What do you think about those hubs? :)
Bitex BX106 hubs are heavier, mainly because of J-bend flange and they have larger bearings, so probably more robust and reliable ... for all season use, I'd prefer those over BX306.

alcatraz
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Looking at the specs they are quite similar, bx306 and bx106. Both have 6902 hubshell bearings in the rear = good.

In front 106 has 6902 bearings (huge) and 306 has 6802 (more than adequate).

I guess bx306 is more expensive than bx106.

bobo100
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:29 am

by bobo100

Thank you for your opinion 😊 That convince me! :)

Slammed
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:32 am

by Slammed

I'm building a new set of race wheels for the upcoming season but can't decide on spokes. The rims are schmolke TLO45s and the hubs are extralite 20/24. I weigh around 63kg and race 15-25 crits a year with a few road races thrown in. I'm tempted to go with Sapim cx supers on the front and rear nds and normal cx rays drive side. I'm slightly worried that the cx supers won't withstand a full season of crit smashing. I know 30 or 40 grams is fairly meaningless, but getting under 1000g would be nice. Are there any other spokes I should look at? or should I just stay with Sapim?

alcatraz
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Slammed wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:30 am
I'm building a new set of race wheels for the upcoming season but can't decide on spokes. The rims are schmolke TLO45s and the hubs are extralite 20/24. I weigh around 63kg and race 15-25 crits a year with a few road races thrown in. I'm tempted to go with Sapim cx supers on the front and rear nds and normal cx rays drive side. I'm slightly worried that the cx supers won't withstand a full season of crit smashing. I know 30 or 40 grams is fairly meaningless, but getting under 1000g would be nice. Are there any other spokes I should look at? or should I just stay with Sapim?
Other than the hubs being quite exotic and not so race friendly, I'd say your idea is quite good. Supers on front and NDS and cx-ray drive side.

You only have 6 spokes transmitting torque so you probably won't be winning sprints against other riders with similar power. The wheelset will not fail, except for maybe the hubs and bearings. I like extralite hubs but I wouldn't race on them. Sure your weight will help to keep things in one piece.

The hubs are compatible with carbon spokes as the spokes don't touch at the crosses (assuming straightpull). If you dare running really exotic spokes you can try and find those. The ones I've seen are around 2.9gr. I don't know their longevity.

bm0p700f
in the industry
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by bm0p700f

As you said the weight saving is meaningless for super cx o er cx Ray's. The extra build hassle is not meaningless (stiffer wheels are easier to build) and the money saved can be spent taking the other half out for example or yourself.

ofsinreno
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:14 am

by ofsinreno

alcatraz wrote:
Slammed wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:30 am
I'm building a new set of race wheels for the upcoming season but can't decide on spokes. The rims are schmolke TLO45s and the hubs are extralite 20/24. I weigh around 63kg and race 15-25 crits a year with a few road races thrown in. I'm tempted to go with Sapim cx supers on the front and rear nds and normal cx rays drive side. I'm slightly worried that the cx supers won't withstand a full season of crit smashing. I know 30 or 40 grams is fairly meaningless, but getting under 1000g would be nice. Are there any other spokes I should look at? or should I just stay with Sapim?
Other than the hubs being quite exotic and not so race friendly, I'd say your idea is quite good. Supers on front and NDS and cx-ray drive side.

You only have 6 spokes transmitting torque so you probably won't be winning sprints against other riders with similar power. The wheelset will not fail, except for maybe the hubs and bearings. I like extralite hubs but I wouldn't race on them. Sure your weight will help to keep things in one piece.

The hubs are compatible with carbon spokes as the spokes don't touch at the crosses (assuming straightpull). If you dare running really exotic spokes you can try and find those. The ones I've seen are around 2.9gr. I don't know their longevity.
Have your looked into Berd?

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by Weenie


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