The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Marin
Posts: 3693
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

bm0p700f wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:01 pm
I honestly cant follow what you have written.
You're not the only one! :shock:

by Weenie


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WinterRider
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

Marin wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:31 am
bm0p700f wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:01 pm
I honestly cant follow what you have written.
You're not the only one! :shock:
This works for me. :smartass:

Suspect the types w more wattage can read what is being stated. Albeit cryptically at times.. not for skimming.. definitely.

I guess prepositions are like carbon fiber for me... only for NON load bearing parts. Go figure... :roll:
Litespeed 2000 Appalachian 61 cm
Litespeed 1998 Blue Ridge 61cm

Fitness rider.. 1 yr from seven decades age.

That is my story and I'm stick'n to it.

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WinterRider
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

LOL.. now a real bike inquiry.

I use the Continental Ulra ll a good deal.. it's tubeless performance rivals the S Pro Ones-- which IMO is an excellent tire and worth my tainted hoarded coins.

Now I search TUBULAR tires... what is the equivalent tire in those to the Ultra ll? --->Great performance/cost effective.

Have.. a vintage set of Italian rims.. 255 grams each. 36H.. which mostly likely I will lace 18 front 27 rear (18/9). Doing light wt at 18/9 likely means drilling 18H rear (9/9) out on one side. Could do the Novatec 272 36H.. found them decent yet wayyy heavy.

Key board queens need to understand.. not 'wannabe wheel' being assembled. Experimental.. nothing one will jump from pedal to pedal on a climb. Just a fun sidebar visit marrying vintage to new.
Litespeed 2000 Appalachian 61 cm
Litespeed 1998 Blue Ridge 61cm

Fitness rider.. 1 yr from seven decades age.

That is my story and I'm stick'n to it.

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pashax
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:48 pm
Location: London

by pashax

Sorry for a complete noob question .
Campagnolo Dayton hub I bought has 9sp freehub body: I can get away with removing 1cog.
As far as I understand, the solution is simply buying a new freehub body, right ? I presume the recent one for Record would fit
"If you brake, you do not win". MC

welchy
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:04 pm

by welchy

Has anybody got any thoughts on Mavic Open Pro UST Disc Wheels?

Thinking of lacing them to some Tune King Kong hubs which I already have.

At 430g per rim - 860g total
Tune Hubs 331g - 24H
48 Sapim X-Ray Spokes 211.5g
Nipples (guessing 1g each) 48g

Total 1450.5g

Anything I'm missing?

Also any thoughts on spokes for this kinda of setup, baring in mind I am 90KG!

rich00
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:21 pm

by rich00

DT Swiss Aero Comp vs DT Swiss Champion on Lightbicycle 45mmx 25mm ride ?

Hi all,
Building my first set of carbon disc rims, I've built several alloy rims previously. Building these on novatec hubs from Bdop.

I'm in 2 minds of which spokes. CX ray are too expensive which is why I'm looking at the DT's but the aero comps are heavier than the champions ? After opinions on how effective aero spokes are ? I'm building 24 2x on the front and 28 2x on the rear. Used to race crits but now settled with fast group weekned rides.

Cheers.

Etienne
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:41 am
Location: France

by Etienne

WinterRider wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:58 pm
Have.. a vintage set of Italian rims.. 255 grams each. 36H.. which mostly likely I will lace 18 front 27 rear (18/9). Doing light wt at 18/9 likely means drilling 18H rear (9/9) out on one side. Could do the Novatec 272 36H.. found them decent yet wayyy heavy.

Key board queens need to understand.. not 'wannabe wheel' being assembled. Experimental.. nothing one will jump from pedal to pedal on a climb. Just a fun sidebar visit marrying vintage to new.
Hi, you will probably experience a very difficult built as those superlight alloy rims are superflexy and the distance between nipples on a 18 spokes build will probably too much.

I made a few tests with superlight rims, and even built a wooden rims pair, and the difference between a noodly undertensioned wheel and a correctly tensioned taco is under half a nipple turn ... so be patient, super cautious and don't hesitate to undo and redo until you find the good balance :idea:

Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing the end result ... and the review, but stay safe when riding such wheels :wink: E

Etienne
Posts: 316
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:41 am
Location: France

by Etienne

rich00 wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:03 am
After opinions on how effective aero spokes are ?
If you're not a competitor anymore, aero spokes will not change much even is there are marginal gains with such spokes ... but the main benefit in my opinion is that controlling spoke's winding is far easier and their resistance to weight ratio seems better that for round spokes.

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WinterRider
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

Etienne wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:52 am
WinterRider wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:58 pm
Have.. a vintage set of Italian rims.. 255 grams each. 36H.. which mostly likely I will lace 18 front 27 rear (18/9). Doing light wt at 18/9 likely means drilling 18H rear (9/9) out on one side. Could do the Novatec 272 36H.. found them decent yet wayyy heavy.

Key board queens need to understand.. not 'wannabe wheel' being assembled. Experimental.. nothing one will jump from pedal to pedal on a climb. Just a fun sidebar visit marrying vintage to new.
Hi, you will probably experience a very difficult built as those superlight alloy rims are superflexy and the distance between nipples on a 18 spokes build will probably too much.

I made a few tests with superlight rims, and even built a wooden rims pair, and the difference between a noodly undertensioned wheel and a correctly tensioned taco is under half a nipple turn ... so be patient, super cautious and don't hesitate to undo and redo until you find the good balance :idea:

Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing the end result ... and the review, but stay safe when riding such wheels :wink: E
I'm on the fence per this potential build. Be fun to try.. I think the outcome not worth the trip.

Remember well a rear single wall 450 gr retro-fit I did .. free wheel for free hub. Tensioned the DS.. round and uniform.. pulling the NDS over gave me the "snake" as I call it ... the rim doesn't have the stiffness my design .. the shape goes south. One of course just backs tension off and proceeds uniformly side to side. Think the "255" rim would require a new designation for shape while tensioning... if the balance is missed by even a minor degree. Built 36H both ends still would mean a decent weight finished... yet a Kinlin rim first trial tubular would be my route... if chosen.

Tubeless works very well for me.
Litespeed 2000 Appalachian 61 cm
Litespeed 1998 Blue Ridge 61cm

Fitness rider.. 1 yr from seven decades age.

That is my story and I'm stick'n to it.

bm0p700f
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Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
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by bm0p700f

18H with such a light rim will be impossible to build it will also flex when cornering. There will be a wave in the wheel which you wont be able to remove. radial truing will be hard as well. As for the rear 27 spoke with a rim like that will not last too long. You'll get a rideable wheel building it 36H. remember there is a reason why rims like this dont exist anymore. They built into light wheels but it turns out fragile as well.

I have a a set of mavic GEL280 built onto novatec hubs with sapim race spokes. They feel light because they are but ride fast through a tight bend and the bike which is a old Look feels unsettled and vauge.

Welchy. The only issue with the Mavic Open Pro UST disc rim is the Kinlin XR22T exists. 435g and cheaper. tyre fitting is easier too. Otherwisw its a great rim just second best.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

pashax what are you trying to run on your daytona hub.

The 9 speed camapg freehub bodies are 9/10/11/12 speed compatible. You cant fit the current freehub to your hub. An axle change will be required but I dont know if the current record axle fits the daytona hub. Its not the same as a the chorus/record hubs.

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pashax
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:48 pm
Location: London

by pashax

bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:51 pm
pashax what are you trying to run on your daytona hub.

The 9 speed camapg freehub bodies are 9/10/11/12 speed compatible. You cant fit the current freehub to your hub. An axle change will be required but I dont know if the current record axle fits the daytona hub. Its not the same as a the chorus/record hubs.
Veloce 10 speed cassette : it only fits with 1 cog removed . Perhaps I am doing something wrong :lol: :oops: :oops: :cry: :noidea: :noidea:
"If you brake, you do not win". MC

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

A veloce 10 speed cassette will fit onto a Daytona hub from the 9 speed days. The freehub lengths has not changed since the k reduction of 9 speed and I don't mean the breif 9 speed record on exa drive.

My guess is you ha e an errant spacer or the sprockets are getting stuck in the splines asuou slide them on.

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WinterRider
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:46 pm

by WinterRider

bm0p700f wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:49 pm
18H with such a light rim will be impossible to build it will also flex when cornering. There will be a wave in the wheel which you wont be able to remove. radial truing will be hard as well. As for the rear 27 spoke with a rim like that will not last too long. You'll get a rideable wheel building it 36H. remember there is a reason why rims like this dont exist anymore. They built into light wheels but it turns out fragile as well.

I have a a set of mavic GEL280 built onto novatec hubs with sapim race spokes. They feel light because they are but ride fast through a tight bend and the bike which is a old Look feels unsettled and vauge.

Welchy. The only issue with the Mavic Open Pro UST disc rim is the Kinlin XR22T exists. 435g and cheaper. tyre fitting is easier too. Otherwisw its a great rim just second best.
Agreed.. I ain't ordered any spokes.. yet. :lol: And they'll have no monetary value laced 18/27.. likely little to none 36 ways also. Might lace them 36's w Leaders.

Thing is... finding the line so to speak. After all.. that rim be double wall.. it is aluminum... a beam if you will. The two layers of al are closely spaced.... dunno if I'm trying to talk myself into it or otta it.

Lasers outbound all the way around 18/27... radial. :mrgreen:

Real deal holding me back.. w no tubular experience.. think another premium set of tubeless rubber makes wayy more sense. But.. I like to mess w experiments....
Litespeed 2000 Appalachian 61 cm
Litespeed 1998 Blue Ridge 61cm

Fitness rider.. 1 yr from seven decades age.

That is my story and I'm stick'n to it.

by Weenie


Jugi
Posts: 678
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi

Which spoke length calculators are good for straight pull spokes?

I'm currently renovating an old wheelset. The hubs are still good (my favorite pair) but I have ordered a new set of rims which have "modern" dimensions and normal nipple seats. The old pair started to get a bit laboursome, as it has hidden nipples and seemed to require more and more attention with age and kilometers growing on them. As I'm sort of doing the spoke length calculations backwards, I'm doubting if I'm ending up at the right values.

Right now I have:
- measured the old rim's ERD as 564mm
- measured the old rim's wall thickness at the spoke hole and approximated the difference in spoke length between hidden and normal nipples, which seems to be 8mm (and that leads to 2x 8mm + 564mm = 580mm ERD if the wheels had been built originally with these hubs and the original spokes with normal nipples)
- know the manufacturer's spec of 510mm ERD on the new rims
- measured the front hub's flange spacing as 77mm (38,5mm from centerline) and flange diameter as 34mm
- measured all old spokes, which were 281mm in front wheel and rear NDS, and 279mm DS (with hidden nipples, and with normal nipples they would effectively shorten 8mm)

The front wheel was built radial and the new one will be radial as well. By my layman's calculations, I'm ending up at a 244mm spoke length for the front wheel. Two calculators (which assume J-bend spokes) return 240mm and some tenths. Am I missing something or are the calculators not suitable for straight pull?

Edit: Added on the explanation how I converted spoke lengths from hidden nipples to normal nipples.

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