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Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:06 pm
by Marin
STUB1 wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:25 am
What's wrong with centrelock? Other than limitations with hubs are there other issues?
* Needs fancy tools to change discs
* Sometimes even 2 different ones front & rear depending on axles
* Sometimes clearance issues with the calipers
* Needs complex 2-part brake discs with aluminum inner
* Heavy
* Not light

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:06 pm
by Weenie

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:35 pm
by LouisN
Hey wheelbuiders.
I need to find a good tool to hold the round spokes (Sapim Laser), to prevent them from twisting :x .
I have some old wheels I'm working on to true and adjust tension, but it's a pain with a mini vise-grip (the spokes still are twisting)...

Louis :)

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:08 pm
by Calnago
Image
I think this is a Hozan tool but I honestly can’t remember now. It helps for sure. Frequent stress relieving while building will help a lot as well.

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:20 am
by LouisN
OK, got it :thumbup: . Another tool to get now...
QUESTION: I hold my spoke key with my left hand, and aero spoke holder in the right hand.
What does that make me in terms of wheelbuiding ? Left hander or right hander :noidea: :lol: ?

Louis :)

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:02 pm
by bm0p700f
Use alloy nipples with lasers. Less wind up if you lubricate the threads. With alloy nips I always use Sapim nipple freeze because it stops corrosion.

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:35 pm
by WmThelen
Man this is a massive thread! I'd like to build my first set of wheels and I'm in information overload!

Looking for suggestions that would be good for a noob. My budget is around $300. With that budget, I'm probably focused on lightest weight. I'm 61kg, I'll be riding primarily on road. I'm currently building a frame with 105 R7000 and planning on using 25c GP4000's.

I was condsidering the BDop LT wheel kit but the hubs seem super low quality.

Appreciate any suggestions you experts my have!

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:28 pm
by bm0p700f
Define super low quality. You want low weight but hubs with stellar bearing life. Those hubs cost real money.

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:37 pm
by WmThelen
Hello bmOp700f, I'll admit I have very little knowledge on hubs so they may not be super low quality. A friend of mine who is more knowledgeable said they came on a set of Chinese wheels he owns and they weren't that great. That's mainly why I'm looking for suggestions on something that could be higher quality, although not as lightweight.

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:23 pm
by bm0p700f
Miche Primato are the hubs you are looking for. Definatley not weight weenie though but they are supremely reliable which for training wheels is all that matters.

Shimano 105 would be the other choice if you frequent an audax site and think 32 spoke count or go home.

Bitex RAF12/RAR12 hub are the only passable light weight hubs.

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:18 pm
by WmThelen
bm0p700f wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:23 pm
Miche Primato are the hubs you are looking for. Definatley not weight weenie though but they are supremely reliable which for training wheels is all that matters.

Shimano 105 would be the other choice if you frequent an audax site and think 32 spoke count or go home.

Bitex RAF12/RAR12 hub are the only passable light weight hubs.
Thank you again bmOp700f! All of those seem great for what I'm thinking. The Bitex hubs seem to be well received for a passable light weight hubs. Do you have a recommendation for number of spokes, spokes, and rims? The Miche Primato ones, I was thinking a 24/28 or 28. If I did the Bitex's hubs, probably 28.

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:46 pm
by ooo
Marin wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:06 pm
STUB1 wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:25 am
What's wrong with centrelock? Other than limitations with hubs are there other issues?
* Needs fancy tools to change discs
* Sometimes even 2 different ones front & rear depending on axles
* Sometimes clearance issues with the calipers
* Needs complex 2-part brake discs with aluminum inner
* Heavy
* Not light
Most of these points are not totally negative, there is something in return:
fancy tools vs simple tools <=> faster operation vs slower operation
complex 2-part discs vs lighter 1-part disc <=> less flexy vs less expensive

Real negative point is: centerlock diameter is more limiting on hubs with industrial bearing design
rotor side bearing and/or axle tube thickness on CL hub will be smaller comparing to 6-bolt version of hub

for example:
Hope front CL hub ⇒ 17x28x7 bearing ⇒ (28-17)×½ ⇒ balls<5.5mm + 15&12 axle tube thickness: (17-15)×½=1mm & (17-12)×½=2.5mm
Hope front 6-bolt ⇒ 20x32x7 bearing ⇒ (32-20)×½ ⇒ balls<6mm + 15&12 axle tube thickness: (20-15)×½=2.5mm & (20-12)×½=4mm

For front centerlock hubs it is important to get bearing info to make sure that bearing is not too small and axle tube is not too thin
(for rear hub it is less of a problem, because 15mm axle option is not offered - that saves 3mm extra room for axle tube or bearing)

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:19 pm
by JoO
bm0p700f wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:23 pm
Miche Primato are the hubs you are looking for. Definatley not weight weenie though but they are supremely reliable which for training wheels is all that matters.

Shimano 105 would be the other choice if you frequent an audax site and think 32 spoke count or go home.

Bitex RAF12/RAR12 hub are the only passable light weight hubs.
+1 on the primato hubs
very good all year/winter hubs.
long bearing life

shimano hubs are also good because you can service them yourself. only 32 H but that might be OK for building your first set.

Get the Roger Musson manual, take your time and enjoy

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:06 am
by bm0p700f
WmThelen wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:18 pm
bm0p700f wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:23 pm
Miche Primato are the hubs you are looking for. Definatley not weight weenie though but they are supremely reliable which for training wheels is all that matters.

Shimano 105 would be the other choice if you frequent an audax site and think 32 spoke count or go home.

Bitex RAF12/RAR12 hub are the only passable light weight hubs.
Thank you again bmOp700f! All of those seem great for what I'm thinking. The Bitex hubs seem to be well received for a passable light weight hubs. Do you have a recommendation for number of spokes, spokes, and rims? The Miche Primato ones, I was thinking a 24/28 or 28. If I did the Bitex's hubs, probably 28.
Spoke count depends on the rims picked. Lets say Kinlin with the XR22t then 24/28 is adviable. witht he XR31T then 20F/24R is enough.

As for centrelock vs 6 bolt. I hate fitting 6 bolt rotors, it take too much time. steel bolts in alloy hubs while in general its not a problem if a bolt rounds or seizes then it s a problem. that also take some neglet. As for bearing size Dt swiss get a 6902 (15x28x7mm) bearing in there CL hubs. The bearing size for most hubs does not go much bigger than 6902 as bigger add weight

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:20 pm
by wolfesquire
Time to build a fair weather carbon wheelset.
Spokes: DT Swiss Competition (28/24)
Hubs: DT Swiss 350
the rims on the other hand I am stumped on which route to go. I want something in the 50-70mm range that are pretty bomb proof (I weigh 95kg).
Suggestions?

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:57 pm
by bm0p700f
20F/24R s enough. I build mine with CX-rays and have geven up on the weight limit. With a robust rim you dont need more spokes. I use Miche Primato's in mine. 20g heavier than 350's under half the the price and extremely reliable. They build into a laterally stiffer wheel too to top it off. No brainer to me.

Re: The wheelbuilding thread

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:57 pm
by Weenie