The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.

Gary71
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:25 am
Location: Brisbane Australia

by Gary71

FilmAt11 wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:40 pm
Before I glue the tubulars, any comments on this build? Is heads-in NDS OK? Thanks!

Rider: 72kg

Hubs: BHS Superlight
Spokes: Sapim Race

Front wheel (20h): 469g
Rear wheel (24h 16:8): 626g
nice wheels - what rims did you use and their weights?

by Weenie


FilmAt11
Posts: 294
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:35 am

by FilmAt11

Thanks - the rims are 'Loltra' 20mm x 20.5mm weighing 239g, 240g.

BradJenkins
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:13 pm

by BradJenkins

Agree with C36
C36 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:34 am
alcatraz wrote:So do steel alloys and forging/tempering/butting processes not influence the spokes performance?

Even if it's a very small influence, it sounds like you lean towards there being no influence. That is a very black and white approach. Isn't there more to it?

/a
Performance = stiffness or performance = durability?
The first, tour won’t really change stiffness with what you mentioned (butting, if you reduce section yes, the process itself, really minor in anisotropic properties changes).
The second , yes you have a hell lot mor variations on durability based on the process.


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miko
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:30 pm

by miko

Hi guys,

I'm hoping to get some help with a wheel build. I've recently got my hands on some 3T carbon rims from a 3T Orbis II C50 wheel set. So, full carbon clincher. They are 20 hole front, 24 rear.

I'm thinking of building them with Sapim CX-Rays and Sapim brass internal nipples (they are designed for internal). I'm also intending to use the Bitex RAF10 and RAR9 hubs. I'd like to use nipple washers and am currently doing a lot of research trying to work out what is suitable. Unfortunately 3T won't help me with this so I'm trying to work out a way of finding the profile of the spoke bed to determine what is the best to use.

Does anyone know anything about these rims and what spoke washers to use? I read somewhere that they are Reynolds/Pacific rim creations.

Also, I'm thinking radial on the front, currently undecided about the rear. Is 2:1 lacing worth the trouble, or should I stick with the traditional cross on both sides? 2x or 3x?

Thanks everyone

Mike

Marin
Posts: 3143
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

For 24h you'll have to go 2x.

2x both sides makes sense, and I'd use stiffer spokes on the drive side if you're over 75kg or a sprinter / masher.

Why the washers?

miko
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:30 pm

by miko

Thank you for your response Marin.

I am over 75kg, what spokes would you suggest?

The wheelset as built by 3T used washers, so I was erring on the side of caution. I thought there were generally a good idea. There is no real seat around the spoke holes either, so I thought they would be a good idea for spreading the load.

Thanks

Mike

Marin
Posts: 3143
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am
Location: Vienna Austria

by Marin

I use Pillar 1432 for the drive side :)

biwa
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 pm

by biwa

Thinking to build my first set of custom wheels, just wonder if 20F and 24R with Sapim CX-Ray spokes a robust enough configuration for someone who is at ~65kg and likes climbing and descending in the Bay area? And does the rim material (alloy vs. carbon) make a difference? Thanks.

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LeDuke
Posts: 1341
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:39 am
Location: Front Range, CO

by LeDuke

So, I’ve read through the Sheldon Brown page re: wheelbuilding, and it appears I am SOL. But I thought I’d ask here before giving up.

Can I use a set of 32h DT 240 disc hubs on anything other than 32h rims?

20, 24, 28? Triplet? Anything?

Building up a set of mid-depth road rims for a disc frame.




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alcatraz
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

biwa wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:36 pm
Thinking to build my first set of custom wheels, just wonder if 20F and 24R with Sapim CX-Ray spokes a robust enough configuration for someone who is at ~65kg and likes climbing and descending in the Bay area? And does the rim material (alloy vs. carbon) make a difference? Thanks.
Rim makes a big difference if you are comparing low weight versions. A light alloy rim can be a nightmare to keep true and to crank up a climb even if you are a relatively light guy. I used to have xr200 rims and while I do like their lightweight I didn't realise how much trouble they were until I went carbon.

I'm not afraid to tinker so I might still use them on a commuter bike, affordable city bike or something like that but not for performance oriented use no. (I'm 65kg too.)

Spokes need to be more resiliant on soft alloy rims because the rim flexes a lot more and stresses spokes individually. The fatigue later leads to spoke/nipple failure if they aren't up to the task. If that doesn't happen the rim will sooner or later deform because thats what soft alloy does eventually. (not all alloy wheels are soft but lighter inevitably means softer)

So carbon = ability to sustain wheel integrity with lighter spokes.

20f/24r should be fine for you as long as they are balanced. I had to get a tensionometer to really get all my spokes perfectly balanced and thus able to stay bomb proof.
Last edited by alcatraz on Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

alcatraz
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

LeDuke wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:58 pm
So, I’ve read through the Sheldon Brown page re: wheelbuilding, and it appears I am SOL. But I thought I’d ask here before giving up.

Can I use a set of 32h DT 240 disc hubs on anything other than 32h rims?

20, 24, 28? Triplet? Anything?

Building up a set of mid-depth road rims for a disc frame.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The spoke hole spacing is going to complicate using the hub for 24h 2:1 but it's been done I'm sure. Don't know how well they held up though. Also I think the pros here on the forum are going to point out that such a hub has the wrong bracing angle to run 8 NDS spokes.

The NDS holes will not line up properly but if you care to experiment it's a cool thing to try. Maybe it will work. :)

The disc brake part is an issue. You would have to cross your NDS side on that rear hub and 8 spokes on the brake side is going to be below a proper disc brake wheel.

A 16h disc brake front is not safe. Don't know if you can use that.

What about selling the hubs. They are great for like a tandem bike or someone a bit overweight.

alcatraz
Posts: 1347
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

miko wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:27 pm
Thank you for your response Marin.

I am over 75kg, what spokes would you suggest?

The wheelset as built by 3T used washers, so I was erring on the side of caution. I thought there were generally a good idea. There is no real seat around the spoke holes either, so I thought they would be a good idea for spreading the load.

Thanks

Mike
Maybe the washers were there to protect the alloy nipples from corrosion. In any case dt swiss has 0.9mm thick washers that are curved and fit many rims that aren't too narrow by the spoke hole.

Also why not use the original washers?

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 4193
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

Leduke your better off using a light carbon 32h rim and you'll get a light wheel with thin spokes.

The other guy. Use an mid depth alloy rim 27mm or better or a carbon rim in which case go deeper with CX rays for the aero effect.

by Weenie


biwa
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 pm

by biwa

alcatraz wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:09 am
biwa wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:36 pm
Thinking to build my first set of custom wheels, just wonder if 20F and 24R with Sapim CX-Ray spokes a robust enough configuration for someone who is at ~65kg and likes climbing and descending in the Bay area? And does the rim material (alloy vs. carbon) make a difference? Thanks.
Rim makes a big difference if you are comparing low weight versions. A light alloy rim can be a nightmare to keep true and to crank up a climb even if you are a relatively light guy. I used to have xr200 rims and while I do like their lightweight I didn't realise how much trouble they were until I went carbon.

I'm not afraid to tinker so I might still use them on a commuter bike, affordable city bike or something like that but not for performance oriented use no. (I'm 65kg too.)

Spokes need to be more resiliant on soft alloy rims because the rim flexes a lot more and stresses spokes individually. The fatigue later leads to spoke/nipple failure if they aren't up to the task. If that doesn't happen the rim will sooner or later deform because thats what soft alloy does eventually. (not all alloy wheels are soft but lighter inevitably means softer)

So carbon = ability to sustain wheel integrity with lighter spokes.

20f/24r should be fine for you as long as they are balanced. I had to get a tensionometer to really get all my spokes perfectly balanced and thus able to stay bomb proof.
Thanks for the advice. I'm thinking these alloy rims: https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/rim ... ce/rr-411/, are they going to be strong enough? And which (stronger) spokes do you recommend for going with alloy rims?

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