The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Nixster
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:30 pm

by Nixster

Thanks again for the information and help. I see what you mean about straight pull being a pain, I’m on my third set of spokes!

Far Sports quoted ERD was 585 so that would tie up with 286mm spokes adding half the difference to the length you gave. I measured a couple of mm more which suggests the 286 should still work I think? The 288 definitely didn’t but there wasn’t a lot in it. Anyway the 286mm are now laced so I’ll see how they build up but still would like to know what you recommend.

Makes you wonder why SP hubs are so popular :noidea:

Marin
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by Marin

Nixster wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:29 am
Makes you wonder why SP hubs are so popular :noidea:
I'd put that as: Makes you understand why straight pull are only popular with OEMs :D

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

far sport quoted ERD. Dont buy spokes until you have measured the ERD yourself. Some manufacturer think the ERD is the internal rim diamter ignoring the spoke nipple bed and the nipple. Other think it is ERD with no nipple.......

for an ERD of 585mm would would need 287mm spokes DS and 279 NDS and front but that assumes the ERD is 585mm. That is an assumption and you know the saying about assumptions.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

For an ERD of 588mm the spoke length would be 288mm DS rear but this also assumes your ERD is right. I know the spoke lengths I have given are correct if the ERD is right.

So maybe you have mnis measured the ERD.

Svetty
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by Svetty

@ malcolm: This issue is presumably why you and other builders don't offer a rebuild of rims onto factory wheel Shimano hubs eg C24s. I keep thinking that there must be 100s of decent used DA hubs that could be rebuilt and that anyone offering a service would quickly build up a steady turn-over once they became known for it...

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

it more that every time I have been asked the rims are the problem. The only alloy rim readily available if 16H and 20H for the clinchers is the kinlin XR31T and that means a wheel that is 200g heavier than the orginal = dead end.

Carbon is the other way to go and for the c35's that require a 21 spoke rear wheel that is viable but buying a bunch of 21H carbon rims in the hope that you can sell them is a hope.

it is a dead end that why no one offers it. I can tell that because I stock the 16H kinlin and have sold 1 in over a year of holding of them.

Svetty
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by Svetty

bm0p700f wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:56 pm
it more that every time I have been asked the rims are the problem. The only alloy rim readily available if 16H and 20H for the clinchers is the kinlin XR31T and that means a wheel that is 200g heavier than the orginal = dead end.

Carbon is the other way to go and for the c35's that require a 21 spoke rear wheel that is viable but buying a bunch of 21H carbon rims in the hope that you can sell them is a hope.

it is a dead end that why no one offers it. I can tell that because I stock the 16H kinlin and have sold 1 in over a year of holding of them.
If I was confident of getting the spoke lengths right I'd be happy gaining 200gms to re-use the hubs with the XR31T rims. I suppose measuring the ERD of the original DA rims and the original spokes, and knowing the ERD of the Kinlins it should be possible to calculate the spoke lengths??

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

that can done in spocalc I have done that before to get the fractional crossing in fact for every SP hub /i have built with.

vejnemojnen
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by vejnemojnen

brief question

how would the spoke length change, if current rims are 24mm deep, with ERD of 596mm AFAIK, and, I'd switch to 31mm tall rims with 578mm ERD? Front is with 20 radial, rear 16 driveside 2x crossed, 8 nds, radial

Can I assume approx. 8mm length difference?

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

triplet lacing must be calcuated If the rim you are switching to is the Kinlin XR31T the ERD is 580mm using sapim external nipples.

never guess with spoke length calculate them if you can.

The kinlin XR31T with a miche primato front hub require 270mm spokes for radial lacing, It is 278mm for the the XR22T ERD 580mm vs 596mm PCD of the front hub is 40mm


For the rear though read this thread. viewtopic.php?f=113&t=113826

vejnemojnen
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by vejnemojnen

thanks

I've found h-son plus archetype, listed as 595mm, as opposed to the original 596mm ERD

will that 1mm make a difference? I believe, it won't, albeitt, I'm not certain.

Marin
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by Marin

It will make about 1mm of difference I'd guess

Svetty
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by Svetty

Marin wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:23 am
It will make about 1mm of difference I'd guess
Yes but is that 1mm per each spoke or 0.5mm per each 'more or less opposing' spokes ;)

Nixster
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by Nixster

bm0p700f wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:24 pm
For an ERD of 588mm the spoke length would be 288mm DS rear but this also assumes your ERD is right. I know the spoke lengths I have given are correct if the ERD is right.

So maybe you have mnis measured the ERD.
Wheel is now built with 286mm DS 280mm NDS spokes. Dish is very good with fairly even tension both sides 13 on the TM1 DS and 3-4 NDS. I know it's not much use but easier than playing 'name that tune' for me. I'm happy with the wheel, thanks for all the advice!

Nixster

vejnemojnen
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by vejnemojnen

So, I'd intend to replace the rims on a wheelset, without changing the spokes (got CX-rays in them as factory spokes, so I'd ideally keep them!) . Reason for re-lacing would be: the hubs are marvellous quality, the spokes are very light, BUT the rims are old-school narrow ones 14mm inside, 19mm outside width.

20 spoke front radial
24 spoke rear, 16 driveside 3times crossed, 8 non-driveside radial, symmetric (without offset) rim spoke bed.

The spokes measure:
282 mm front
278 mm rear non driveside
290 mm rear driveside

Hubs:
front: 14mm Flange distance, 36mm center-flange distance, 100 mm OLD
rear: flange distances: 26 mm left, 48 mm right, center to flange: 39 left, 17 right, 130mm OLD. Spoke flange diameters are: 44mm left, 48mm right

which rims would suit my needs? Need to come in 20-24hole versions, be at least 17-17.5mm wide inside, and have an appropriate size to be able to re-lace them with the current spokes.

Two candidates so far:
- Kinlin XR22T (albeit, unobtainable in my area)
- HSon Plus Archetype (134 euros posted from wiggle)

On the rear wheel I can even get away with DT-R460, but does not come in 20h Version.

suggestions? Located in central europe, hungary.. Anyone knows good bike shops or webshops in the EU which stock appropriate rims, and does not charge a fortune for shipping ? I'd rather not spend more than 15 euros on the shipping..

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