The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
jockster
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:25 pm

by jockster

I just had a look at the spocalc excel sheet and noticed the tension ratio chart. If i get 100% L/R ratio - does that mean totally even spoke tension on left/right ratio, or that all tension is on the left side?

ryker
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 1:01 am

by ryker

Hey Jockster - I can't reply to your PM but I can confirm everything in your message.

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kavitator
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by kavitator

just for INFO: rim Campagnolo EURUS two way fit weights 462g

:D

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Zen Cyclery
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by Zen Cyclery

@plpete- I think that the SL23 from Pacenti is a better rim than the Archetype. It's lighter, wider, and deeper while still being just as rigid. The spoke count sounds good for your weight though. Regarding the nipples I'd go brass on the rear drive side and alloy everywhere else.

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

I have never found an issue with alloy nipples on the DS rear.

Jackster tension ratio is just that tension ratio left to right. so 100% is same tension left to right. Still I have built many a stable rear wheel with a tension ratio of 44%. You just have to be selective about who you do that for. That is part of the art of wheelbuilding knowing where the limits are.

As for bedding in spokes OwenJames a proper stress relieving process should prevent any loosening of spokes as that is what causes them to go out of true. Bringing the spoke up to full tension will straighten the spokes out. I have built wheels with bending the spokes and without bending at the flanges, and I have found it make no difference at all. what does make a difference is proper stress relieving, neglect that and on the first ride there will be a tension drop on some spokes and it goes out of true. When building even with race or thicker spokes when at 4/5 tension I do several rounds of grasping pairs of spokes until there is no further tension drop. If I did not do that then on the first ride the wheels would de stress and the tension would drop and I would get an unhappy call from the customer.

jockster
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by jockster

bm0p700f wrote:Jackster tension ratio is just that tension ratio left to right. so 100% is same tension left to right. Still I have built many a stable rear wheel with a tension ratio of 44%. You just have to be selective about who you do that for. That is part of the art of wheelbuilding knowing where the limits are.



Thank you very much for making this clearer to me.

Another question - does it make sense to use nipple washers on the nipple seat when building on a carbon rim?
Or are washers only for metal-on-metal applications?

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kavitator
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by kavitator

For washers i think the best is to contact manufacturer of the rim.

Newer taiwan rims mostly dont need washers (internal or externail nipples)

OwenJames
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:16 pm

by OwenJames

bm0p700f wrote:As for bedding in spokes OwenJames a proper stress relieving process should prevent any loosening of spokes as that is what causes them to go out of true. Bringing the spoke up to full tension will straighten the spokes out. I have built wheels with bending the spokes and without bending at the flanges, and I have found it make no difference at all. what does make a difference is proper stress relieving, neglect that and on the first ride there will be a tension drop on some spokes and it goes out of true. When building even with race or thicker spokes when at 4/5 tension I do several rounds of grasping pairs of spokes until there is no further tension drop. If I did not do that then on the first ride the wheels would de stress and the tension would drop and I would get an unhappy call from the customer.


Well yeah, I know. I am properly OCD about my bike though, so when I say it went out of true, I am talking about 0.2mm here.

Interested though; as you are building wheels for customers, if you do get any back (and you must get some coming back, surely?) what kind of amount of out-of-true do they complain about? I would imagine you do get some people like me who get shirty if their wheels are even slightly out...

bombertodd
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by bombertodd

OwenJames, I'm not a guru wheel builder but I've built a couple sets and trued dozens of wheels. I've found focusing more on even tension will make the wheel stay true longer than focusing on a making a true wheel. I make the wheel as even tension and true as possible and finish the wheel with even tensioning which might make the wheel true within +-1mm. I've never had a problem with this method yet (knock on wood). In the older days before I owned a tensiometer I tried to get them as true as possible and a few rides later they were a little tweaked.

OwenJames
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by OwenJames

Well yeah, that is how it works!

bm0p700f
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by bm0p700f

0.2mm is not not out of true by any standard. When I build wheels I shoot for 0.1mm lateral true and for radial it will depend on the rim. Some rim alloy radial true with in 0.2mm and still have even tensions, others will vary by up to 0.5mm (velocity A23). Getting tension as even as the rim allows is more important though than getting the wheel as perfectly round and straight as possible. Uneven spoke tension shortens spoke life but if a wheel has perfectly even tension it would be badly out of shape. I suppose one of the arts of wheel building is knowing where the balance is.

OwenJames
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by OwenJames

Indeed. I have built quite a few road wheels now and feel that it is very much an artistic endeavour, as much as it is a straight out technical one. Like anything artistic, it is wonderfully subjective, and impossible to truly know when to stop.

sjc166
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Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:17 pm
Location: Perth, W.A

by sjc166

I have a question which i hope someone can answer.

I am wanting to put new hubs and spokes on my Corima Aero rims. I have used numerous online calculators to determine the correct spoke length but i seem to be getting different answers. I want to use Chris King r45 hubs with Sapim cx ray spokes. I have found online a 50mm wheel set with the same hub and spoke specs and it gives me the spoke length. Can assume that with a 47mm profile i can just take off 3mm from the 50mm measurements and it will work on the 47mm wheels. Am i making any sense? Or even better, if anyone has laced some Corima aero's with different hubs and spokes then i would love to hear from you. I saw on here there was a thread about Corima aeros ERD but nothing about replace hubs and spokes.
Cheers

bombertodd
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by bombertodd

I wouldn't trust just taking off 3mm. The issue lies with rim thickness and the accuracy of how tall the rims really are. I would measure them yourself to find the exact ERD.

how to measure ERD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoJJI7FRZLk

bricky21
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by bricky21

It's not as simple as just subtracting 3mm from a similar wheel. You should measure the ERD yourself.

Where did you find Corima Rims in the US?

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