The wheelbuilding thread

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
User avatar
kavitator
Posts: 1160
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Slovenia---that forest land

by kavitator

DividedVolta wrote:Alright, I'm trying to make my final decisions before buying all the parts for my wheel set. Goals are a light weight clincher wheel set built with climbing in mind. Original suggestions pointed me toward the Kinlin XR-200's, but thinking about a slight aero/stiffness advantage has me thinking of the XR-270's, so I wanted to ask about them. Please critique my builds below. As background, I weight right around 70kg/155lb consistently and enjoy climbing (hill sprints even more ....



I think it will be ok 24 front 28 rear for your weight. Better as with all Cx Ray back is RACE on DS and other can be CX Rays (or Lasers).
24 2xcross front, 28 DS 3x cross; NDS 2x cross and it is very solid wheelset.
Weight will be around 1350g (black rims, add around 10g for each white rim)
And try with KoolStop Solmon breakpads (Shimano black works too) - it will be pulsing but later will gone

KLabs
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am

by KLabs

Hi All, I have the ProLite Bracciano wheelset and the Rear Hub bearings have noticeable play, so I need to replace the 2 x 6901 bearings.
The issue I have is that I do not have a bearing puller to remove them ... is it easy to get hold of one of these?
If so, please let me know where can I get one ...

Or, is there another way to easily remove them without damaging the hub, axle, or even the bearings that I will be replacing ...

thanks in advance ...

by Weenie


teleguy57
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:29 am

by teleguy57

@notsoswift: another nice box section rim is the Ambrosio Montreal. Falls right between the Chrono F20 and Nemesis in weight; same dimensions -- thicker walls than Chrono, thinner than Nemesis. It doesn't have the cool laser etching of the Nemesis, but unless someone is big (which you aren't) or riding really crappy roads the Montreal is more than enough rim.

http://dormancyclery.mybigcommerce.com/ambrosio-montreal/

@zen: I'm thinking 24/25mm tubulars (Veloflex Roubaix, Challenge Strada(, maybe even 27mm Vittoria Pave CG and looking for folks with actual experience

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 3714
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

divided volta the XR-200 build I have dissucess is 1362g not 1330-1350g. At least that what my set weigh. I am 79kg and have no issue yet.

The XR-270 however will be stiffer no bad thing. I have not got a Xr-270 to measure the ERD but based on the publish ERD a 28 spoke rear laced 2x will have DS lenght of 278mm and NDS length of 282mm. The front wheel will have lengths of 287mm laced 2x and 279mm laced radialy. The XR-270 is stiff enough to build with Laser on both sides of the rear wheel but using race spokes DS certainly does not hurt. I normally do this unless the customer is of low weight.

Why not use the XR-200 on the front anf the XR270 of the rear. At 70 kg though the XR-200 should be fine unless you are a power station.

DividedVolta
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:37 am

by DividedVolta

bm0, I was just going off of published weights and basic addition. Just threw out a range from rough estimation, really. I like the idea of a 200 front/270 rear; in fact I think that settles it and I'll do that. Best of both worlds kind of thing.

I'm definitely not a power station, just run my brakes tight and hate hate hate rub. Thanks for all the input, now it's time to buy everything and put it together.

notsoswift
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:00 am
Location: Melbourne

by notsoswift

HakeemT wrote:Have you considered Crono F20's?

Can't seem to get them readily?
Maybe a bit on the light side for what I want as well, I am a 85kg sprinter and these will be all purpose wheels although that includes those wet and windy races where my race carbons are not the best (Reynolds 46mm)

@teleguy Montreal maybe a good balance, especially with 32 spokes to keep it all together

Fitzroy
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:22 pm

by Fitzroy

Long time lurker needing advice.

My Easton EA90 SL's have died. Nipples on the front cracking after trying to true them.

Is it worth rebuilding the Easton R4 hubs (2009 version) with an Alloy Kinlin / HED rim?

Looked at Tune, Alchemy hubs but then realised I'm no Wiggins and probably a Novatec A291SB-SL front & F482 SB-SL rear would do with the right rims. I know little about the Novotec hubs, will they build a strong and rigid wheel for a 80kg rider (similar/same as a Tune or Alchemy hub)?
Alloy rims, probably a Kinlin 200 F 270 R, laced with cx-ray 24/28 2 cross all round? Or a HED C2 - H+ Sun rim.

I'm open to opinions on the R4 hubs and basic good/bad options on the new build. Once I've done more research I'll post what I think I'll go with.

Cheers.

MarkThailand
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:19 pm

by MarkThailand

Fitzroy wrote:Long time lurker needing advice.

My Easton EA90 SL's have died. Nipples on the front cracking after trying to true them.

Is it worth rebuilding the Easton R4 hubs (2009 version) with an Alloy Kinlin / HED rim?

Looked at Tune, Alchemy hubs but then realised I'm no Wiggins and probably a Novatec A291SB-SL front & F482 SB-SL rear would do with the right rims. I know little about the Novotec hubs, will they build a strong and rigid wheel for a 80kg rider (similar/same as a Tune or Alchemy hub)?
Alloy rims, probably a Kinlin 200 F 270 R, laced with cx-ray 24/28 2 cross all round? Or a HED C2 - H+ Sun rim.

I'm open to opinions on the R4 hubs and basic good/bad options on the new build. Once I've done more research I'll post what I think I'll go with.

Cheers.


It depends on the condition of the Easton R4 hubs. You could mail in the hubs to Prowheelbuilder.com and have them build a wheel around it using HED C2 rims with spokes of your choice.

But, I just ordered a HED signature wheelset from Prowheelbuilder.com with HED C2 rims, White Industries T-11 hubs, and Sapim CX-Ray spokes for $570.

Mark
2012 Lynskey R330 with SRAM Red Quarq
2013 Parlee Z1 with DA 9070
2013 Lynskey Helix OS II with SRAM Red

eric
Posts: 2196
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Contact:

by eric

If the R4 hub has the spokes that thread into the hub it's not worth using them in another build. You can get spokes from Easton but they are not cheap.

In any case if the hub and rim are still good you could just replace the nipples while leaving the spokes in the same position. The wheel might not be quite as reliable as a new build using new parts but if the spokes are left in the same position it's no worse than removing tension and re-tensioning the wheel. Not like reusing spokes in a new pattern.

That'd be cheap and would leave you money to buy parts to build another set of wheels.

KLabs
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am

by KLabs

Hi Eric, need some advice ... for a 90kg rider, using a BHS SL218 Rear Hub and Velocity A23 rims, would you recommend a 2:1 hub/spoke pattern or a more traditional hub/spoke pattern. If you recommend a traditional hub/spoke pattern, what would you recommend, eg. 1ds2nds, 2ds2nds, 3ds2nds, etc ... thanks :-)

eric
Posts: 2196
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:47 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, California, USA
Contact:

by eric

I haven't tried a 2:1 wheel yet. The BHS hub has the NDS flange spaced farther out than many normal hubs but not as far out as a hub specifically designed for 2:1. Given that, lacing it 2:1 would result in a wheel that has less lateral stiffness than 1:1 lacing. It depends on your riding style as to whether that's a problem for you. It is for me and I weigh a lot less.

I'd only do 1x if you're lacing the DS all heads in. Otherwise 2x at least. The NDS flange on these hubs is pretty small and I don't know if you can do 3x @ 28h without bending the spokes. All mine have been 1x heads in or 2x. Brandon @ BHS would know if 3x will work.

1x heads in increases lateral stiffness. But depending on your derailleur and frame there can be clearance problems. My experiment wheel (BHS 218 hub) worked with no issues with a Shimano 7900 derailleur but when I changed to Sram Red the clearance between the derailleur and spokes was tight and the spokes would ting on the cage as the wheel flexed when I was out of the saddle. I ended up putting a second 1mm spacer under the cassette which took care of it. Interestingly that also made the cassette line up with my race wheels (White Ind hubs) so I could swap wheels without adjusting the derailleur.

KLabs
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am

by KLabs

Do you think a 2.1 pattern could be done with a 40H Hub/Rim. ie 20dDS/2x 10NDS/Radial. If so, what hub would you use ...

bm0p700f
in the industry
Posts: 3714
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
Contact:

by bm0p700f

A 40H hub would be a tandem hub or BMX but the OLD on those are completley wrong and will not fit in you frame. A BMX hub also use a solid axle.

Give up on 2:1 unless you are going to use a very stiff rim i.e. stiffer than a A23. The H + plus son archetype might be stiff enough. Not to sure how it compares to the HED C2. I would just use 2x both sides and just stress relieve very throughly and use a spoke tension meter to ensure the NDS tesnions are very even as they will be low. I have managed sucessful builds with NDS tensions as low as you wil get using those hubs (miche hubs and DT Swiss RR415 rims)

In fact though 2x ds and 3x NDS will improve tension balance a bit so do this on a 28 spoke rear wheel.

Fitzroy
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:22 pm

by Fitzroy

eric wrote:If the R4 hub has the spokes that thread into the hub it's not worth using them in another build. You can get spokes from Easton but they are not cheap.

In any case if the hub and rim are still good you could just replace the nipples while leaving the spokes in the same position. The wheel might not be quite as reliable as a new build using new parts but if the spokes are left in the same position it's no worse than removing tension and re-tensioning the wheel. Not like reusing spokes in a new pattern.

That'd be cheap and would leave you money to buy parts to build another set of wheels.


I think the front is the straight pull type where the spokes are in the hubs. I'll put up pics when I find time.

Being in Australia it is expensive to send to a USA shop to rebuild and return but may look into it in future as I think the hubs are still good and I think they spin nicely.

My issue is this, What am I getting by buying expensive hubs? On the attachment some ideas of components I'm thinking about, with weights and price (would like a build around the 1400g mark). Also, I can get a set of Fulcrum Racing Zero Dark Label 2013 Shimano / Sram landed in Aus for $879AUD (1435g). So what does a Tune/Alchemy KinLin build give me over a Racing Zero for the same type of Money? In turn, what does a $900 wheelset provide over some of the cheaper build options I have priced up that I could probably land in Aus for around $450 - $500 and have them built here for another $100?

Not having ridden loads of wheels is the investment worth it over a factory or cheaper wheel build? At 80 - 85kgs riding mainly flat group rides, no racing yet, and not to harsh on wheels. Any help guidance appreciated.
Attachments
Wheel Builds.JPG
Wheel Components.

by Weenie


steel515
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:03 am

by steel515

Any reason Not to use these, vs 2.0/1.8 spokes? Would be lighter.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post