The wheelbuilding thread

[themidge]

I was actually thinking some Farsports tubulars, probably 50mm. I reckon with a deep carbon rim I could manage 16h lasers at the front and 20h race at the rear.

I also saw the Kinlin xr31t, but I already have a lighter, stronger wheelset with 28h xr22t on Bitex so I didn't bother. If you try it please report back, I'd be especially interested with regards to spoke choice.

[Arph]

Thank you. Same here, please report if you do I would use those rebuilt wheels on a bike I leave at my mother-in-law's, so clinchers it would be. And I have Fulcrum 55s tubulars already (pro team edition and all), so don't need another pair of deep tubulars.

[rma]

Quick question here about my wheels and bike. I have a 2018 Scott Spark 900 RC and with it the original wheels. I have some wheel building experience and checked the dish of the rear wheel. It was offset (non drive side) almost 1.5mm. I double checked and the measurement was confirmed. After redish and new tire inserted, the wheel isn't centered in the rear triangle.

Does anyone knows if the rear triangle is offset for this particular frame??? Can't find any info about it.

Thanks

[alcatraz]

Was it better centered in the frame before redishing?

[rma]

Yes, it was. I looked normal to my eyes, as a matter of fact I was impressed by the incorrect dish. See the post "correction" result.
Maybe not the best angles but...

[alcatraz]

When putting your body weight on the bike it might actually center.

A rear wheel flexes farther to the left than the right, because of the spoke angles.

If you do suspect the frame to be off you can see this by mounting the wheel the wrong way. I don't know if you can do it with disc brake wheels but try it.

If the wheel is in fact perfectly dished (measured with the tire inflated) then the offset you observe must be due to the frame. Ensure your endcaps are fully seated before measuring. When the wheel is mounted the endcaps have a lot of pressure on them.

[Gravel89]

Hi everyone, I am building my first Gravel wheelset and I have a few questions for you:

- I weight 90Kg, riding not too hard but once per year bike packing. Are 28 spokes on the rear wheel enough with an aluminium rim?
- I will use tire with a width range from 35 mm to 42mm, which it’s the best rim width? 22 mm (RR481) or 24 mm (GR 531)
- better straight pull or J bend for the use?
- because of the price I would use D-light spokes, are they ok for this use?
- can I use PHR washers also with brass nipples?
- why dt Swiss and other brands offer wheels set with just 24 spokes also for gravel and cx use?

[alcatraz]

Big brand wheels don't use super light spokes. They worry about aesthetics. So heavier spokes with a lower count are used. Spokes are a bad place to reduce weight anyway, if performance is at all a concern. Will a 28h d-light work ok for your usage case? I believe it will without issue (maybe it will out edge a heavier cx-sprint 24h build even). (I do not guarantee wheels like a wheelbuilder needs to do). This is assuming the rim is ok. I wouldn't ride a wooden rim even with 36 spokes.

Have you found a 28h hub yet? Sometimes 24h is what's available.

With a low spoke count or a lightweight/shallow rim you might want to add washers. Many rims today don't require them. Ask the rim manufacturer and mention your usage case.

If you want an extra level of endurance to your wheels then do a 28h 5.5gr rear wheel build. (5.5gr spokes like cx-sprint, instead of 4.7gr for d-light). Depending on what rim you use. Some builders won't even accept a 28h cx-sprint build if you pick a weak rim (shallow/light/soft), at least not for endurance and heavy weight capacity. How much will the maximum total bike weight be with you on it while bikepacking? Have you broken wheels before?

If money is no concern then straightpull spokes might look better. Usually J-bend hubs are so much cheaper and they usually have slightly better geometry to out-edge the benefit of straightpull spokes with generic hubs. On the other hand if you find yourself a deal on good geometry straightpull hubs then that's going to be the winner.

For a first build it's wise to go with brass nipples (because you are going to do a ton of adjustments, and you don't want the soft aluminum to deform). However if you really want aluminum and you calculate your spoke lengths well, it's not impossible to build a first wheelset with them. Get a dozen extra nipples and take your time. Get a good spoke key and be careful with scratching off the anodizing or they'll look bad when done.

Bladed spokes save you a ton of time and headache when building.

[Gravel89]

Big brand wheels don't use super light spokes. They worry about aesthetics. So heavier spokes with a lower count are used. Spokes are a bad place to reduce weight anyway, if performance is at all a concern. Will a 28h d-light work ok for your usage case? I believe it will without issue (maybe it will out edge a heavier cx-sprint 24h build even). (I do not guarantee wheels like a wheelbuilder needs to do). This is assuming the rim is ok. I wouldn't ride a wooden rim even with 36 spokes.

Have you found a 28h hub yet? Sometimes 24h is what's available.

With a low spoke count or a lightweight/shallow rim you might want to add washers. Many rims today don't require them. Ask the rim manufacturer and mention your usage case.

If you want an extra level of endurance to your wheels then do a 28h 5.5gr rear wheel build. (5.5gr spokes like cx-sprint, instead of 4.7gr for d-light). Depending on what rim you use. Some builders won't even accept a 28h cx-sprint build if you pick a weak rim (shallow/light/soft), at least not for endurance and heavy weight capacity. How much will the maximum total bike weight be with you on it while bikepacking? Have you broken wheels before?

If money is no concern then straightpull spokes might look better. Usually J-bend hubs are so much cheaper and they usually have slightly better geometry to out-edge the benefit of straightpull spokes with generic hubs. On the other hand if you find yourself a deal on good geometry straightpull hubs then that's going to be the winner.

For a first build it's wise to go with brass nipples (because you are going to do a ton of adjustments, and you don't want the soft aluminum to deform). However if you really want aluminum and you calculate your spoke lengths well, it's not impossible to build a first wheelset with them. Get a dozen extra nipples and take your time. Get a good spoke key and be careful with scratching off the anodizing or they'll look bad when done.

Bladed spokes save you a ton of time and headache when building.

Hi, thank you for your reply! Finding a hub for 28 or 32 from dt Swiss is not a problem, straight pull and j bend hubs would cost me the same, the big difference make the spokes ( cx sprint vs sapim sprint). I think max weight would be around 110 Kg.

[alcatraz]

Ok. What rim do you intend to use?

DT straightpull geometry isn't the best but it isn't bad. At least they provide a pretty good level of endurance. Bit pricey.

[Gravel89]

Ok. What rim do you intend to use?

DT straightpull geometry isn't the best but it isn't bad. At least they provide a pretty good level of endurance. Bit pricey.

I was thinking to use or dt Swiss GR531 or dt Swiss RR431. The price here in Europe is not so high. Are these rims stuff enough for a 28 with 3x lacing? Or just go 32 3x with d-light spokes?

[alcatraz]

If you go straightpull you will have to lace the way the hub was designed. In this case ~3-3.5x.

RR421 is ~430gr, 21mm deep and has 20mm internal width.
GR531 is ~500gr, 25mm deep and has 24mm internal width.

The 421 will balloon the tire a bit more, and it will be softer. Will it work ok with 28h cx-sprint spokes. Sure. D-light might be pushing it for backpacking, AND dtswiss don't specify a max riding weight. They don't recommend 40mm tires or wider on such an inner width. You could probably get away with it but you're going past recommended widths. For 110kg gravel the RR421 is a bit undersized, structurally but primarily for your comfort.

Will you be happier with a GR531 rim in the rear? Probably. You could likely go with thinner spokes if you have the GR531 but the weight reduction is minimal. 24h cx-sprint is possible. 28h d-light is possible. If you are going to sell the wheels one day 24h cx-sprint will look more attractive . If you want a wheelset that will last you an eternity and outperform many big brand wheels then GR531 + 28h cx-sprint (or equivalent spokes). Estimated weight w. 240exp and Al nipples 1635gr.

If you're concerned with weight you need carbon rims. A carbon rim can furthermore tolerate a bit thinner spokes, or a slightly lower count. A 400gr carbon rim is quite solid and robust. Weightweenie clincher rims range down to 280gr, just like alloy ranges down to about 380gr. Those weights are not robust obviously.

[Gravel89]

If you go straightpull you will have to lace the way the hub was designed. In this case ~3-3.5x.

RR421 is ~430gr, 21mm deep and has 20mm internal width.
GR531 is ~500gr, 25mm deep and has 24mm internal width.

The 421 will balloon the tire a bit more, and it will be softer. Will it work ok with 28h cx-sprint spokes. Sure. D-light might be pushing it for backpacking, AND dtswiss don't specify a max riding weight. They don't recommend 40mm tires or wider on such an inner width. You could probably get away with it but you're going past recommended widths. For 110kg gravel the RR421 is a bit undersized, structurally but primarily for your comfort.

Will you be happier with a GR531 rim in the rear? Probably. You could likely go with thinner spokes if you have the GR531 but the weight reduction is minimal. 24h cx-sprint is possible. 28h d-light is possible. If you are going to sell the wheels one day 24h cx-sprint will look more attractive . If you want a wheelset that will last you an eternity and outperform many big brand wheels then GR531 + 28h cx-sprint (or equivalent spokes). Estimated weight w. 240exp and Al nipples 1635gr.

If you're concerned with weight you need carbon rims. A carbon rim can furthermore tolerate a bit thinner spokes, or a slightly lower count. A 400gr carbon rim is quite solid and robust. Weightweenie clincher rims range down to 280gr, just like alloy ranges down to about 380gr. Those weights are not robust obviously.

What are equivalent spokes for the cx sprint? Sapim race?

[alcatraz]

Any 5-6gr spokes. Sapim/DT/CNspoke/Pillar. They're all big brands.

D-light are 4-5gr.

[alcatraz]

Here's the requested pic for Ticlimax. Hope it helps.

The pillar 1420 column is obstructed but as you can see it's very similar to cx-ray and cn424 which have similar dimensions.