The wheelbuilding thread

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

Moderator: robbosmans

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The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.

If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Do you have trouble with brake rub?

You can try to do a simple deflection test by holding the seatstay and pushing the rim with your thumb. "Good wheels" usually deflect noticeably less for the same force. Next time you're in a bike shop do the test with other wheels and frames.

Maybe you need stonger wheels. Larger flanges/heavier spokes.

I'm asking because it could be counterproductive to reduce right flange distance if flex is your enemy. (which it might not be, but I just thought I'd ask)

by Weenie


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ultreia
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:31 pm

by ultreia

alcatraz wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:27 pm
Do you have trouble with brake rub?

You can try to do a simple deflection test by holding the seatstay and pushing the rim with your thumb. "Good wheels" usually deflect noticeably less for the same force. Next time you're in a bike shop do the test with other wheels and frames.

Maybe you need stonger wheels. Larger flanges/heavier spokes.

I'm asking because it could be counterproductive to reduce right flange distance if flex is your enemy. (which it might not be, but I just thought I'd ask)
I know what you mean but if I ask you Why same carbon rim, similar spokes (CX Ray vs Sapim Laser) works on DT350 vs Bitex Rar9? I mean carbon 38mm rim has no problem built with CX Ray and DT350 straight pull vs RAR9 round Sapim Laser...

Only mounted on the bike I can see different room on the cage, more room on the DT350 wheelset... and it is clear to me that it is related with flange distance... maybe I am wrong...

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

There's something odd about your situation. I wouldn't invest too much in trying to solve the problem that way. It's good you have one working wheelset. Maybe the underlying problem will present itself before you invest more in finding workarounds.

ultreia
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:31 pm

by ultreia

Regarding front MTB disc wheel, is there any offset of the wheel dish? Or should the rim centered to the hub nuts? I think so... but I don´t really know...

ultreia
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:31 pm

by ultreia

Regarding front MTB disc wheel, is there any offset of the wheel dish? Or should the rim centered to the hub nuts? I think so... but I don´t really know...

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Well you want the finished wheel with an inflated tire mounted to be centered in the frame.

I can't imagine it being necessary on the front wheel but rear wheels with shallower rims run tubeless, tend to move a bit more. They come slightly towards the NDS when a tire is mounted and inflated, so some builders dish with an offset of something like 0.5mm to the DS on those particular wheels, to compensate.

But seeing as mtb is relatively low pressure, it's likely only a practice for shallower rear road wheels. There are higher tire pressures and occasional shallow/narrow rims.

ultreia
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:31 pm

by ultreia

alcatraz wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:46 am
Well you want the finished wheel with an inflated tire mounted to be centered in the frame.

I can't imagine it being necessary on the front wheel but rear wheels with shallower rims run tubeless, tend to move a bit more. They come slightly towards the NDS when a tire is mounted and inflated, so some builders dish with an offset of something like 0.5mm to the DS on those particular wheels, to compensate.

But seeing as mtb is relatively low pressure, it's likely only a practice for shallower rear road wheels. There are higher tire pressures and occasional shallow/narrow rims.
So if I don´t understand wrong, as a general rule, the dish should be the same as non disc wheel, right? Just in case, only 0.5 mm to the DS because the tubeless tire mounted.

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

It applies to those that are dished to one side, and will experience a larger spoke tension drop, like shallow road wheels running a tubeless tire. Sure it can happen to disc brake wheels too.

If the wheel is (nearly) symmetrical (no dish) then rim would stay centered as it compresses. This I think applies to disc brake front wheels. They're nearly symmetrical.

I don't know how much a tubeless tire compresses an mtb wheel. If it's similar to road wheels, then offsetting the dish could be relevant in the rear.

A fun experiment would be to see if triplet wheels also experience this. Maybe the extra DS spokes actually direct the compression more downward. :)

ultreia
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:31 pm

by ultreia

alcatraz wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:54 am
It applies to those that are dished to one side, and will experience a larger spoke tension drop, like shallow road wheels running a tubeless tire. Sure it can happen to disc brake wheels too.

If the wheel is (nearly) symmetrical (no dish) then rim would stay centered as it compresses. This I think applies to disc brake front wheels. They're nearly symmetrical.

I don't know how much a tubeless tire compresses an mtb wheel. If it's similar to road wheels, then offsetting the dish could be relevant in the rear.

A fun experiment would be to see if triplet wheels also experience this. Maybe the extra DS spokes actually direct the compression more downward. :)
My question is more related to the disc brake caliper, because the spokes will be near to the caliper. I just wondering why a custom build wheel is dished to the opposite side of the caliper. I always thought it was an error, because the wheel is clearly not centered on my fork. I will correct now that I have a smal experience on truing and building wheels.

Thank you!

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

The left hub flange is closer to the middle to clear the caliper.

If you have enough caliper clearance you could dish the wheel to the center where it should be.

How far off is the dish? If you don't have a dishing tool you can put two cups on a flat surface and rest the wheel(rim) on them. Then stack some coins or similar to the endcap. Compare both sides. Compare inflated and deflated if you want to see if that's what's causing it.

ultreia
Posts: 70
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:31 pm

by ultreia

alcatraz wrote:
Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:30 am
The left hub flange is closer to the middle to clear the caliper.

If you have enough caliper clearance you could dish the wheel to the center where it should be.

How far off is the dish? If you don't have a dishing tool you can put two cups on a flat surface and rest the wheel(rim) on them. Then stack some coins or similar to the endcap. Compare both sides. Compare inflated and deflated if you want to see if that's what's causing it.
I have a dish tool and without tire it is the same situation, it is clearly not centered. I will try to put in the center and then I will check again

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

The spokes can move closer to the caliper under braking (depending on how they are laced at the crosses, leading spokes under trailing spokes). Leave a decent clearance if that's the case.

If the nipples feel like they're binding then it's best to lube the threads before attempting adjustments. Use a good spoke key. Check for even tension.

Rush
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:10 am

by Rush

Rush wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:17 am
Well I've finished building my new wheels. Hed Belgium C2 rims laced to Alchemy hubs with Sapim CX-Rays. 28 spokes 2x for the front, 32 3x for the rear.
Weights for the build:
Front rim was 448 g.
Rear rim was 455 g.
Front hub was 62 g.
Rear hub was 222 g.
KCNC Titanium skewers for 40 g for the pair.

Total weights with skewiers and Velox rim tape :
711 g for the front
899 g for the rear.

Using the Park Tool tension meter the front spokes were about 10 +/- 1.0 units, the rear wheel was 13 DS, 9 NDS.

I've put about 200 km on the rims so far and they have stayed true so it seems I've stress-relieved the spokes properly.

Wheels seem to be a fair bit stiffer than my old set..as they should be as they are 18-year old Shimano 600 Ultegra hubs laced to Campagnolo Omega rims.

Thanks to Bikeman for rims and tape and Zen Cyclery for the hubs, spokes and nipples.

Image
After 8 years and almost 15,000 km the Hed rims were worn out. I replaced them with the Kinlin XR26. Not sure about the weights.

Gave the hubs a service. The Alchemy ORC needed a new outer freehub bearing and inner body bearing (the big 6760). All the other bearings are still in good condition.
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alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Wow, talk about going full circle on a project. Replying to your own 9y old post. :)

Arph
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:30 pm
Location: France

by Arph

themidge wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:03 pm
^ I'm wondering about this because I have some Dura Ace hubs to build up, which are 16/20 F/R. With a 50mm rim, would I be okay with Sapim Lasers or should I go for Sapim Race, maybe Laser on the front and Race on the back?

I'm ~60kg and ride out the saddle a fair bit, I need the wheels to be stiff enough to not rub on climbs or in sprints.
Which rims do you plan on using if I may ask ? I will have the same issue soon with 7850 DA hubs (rims are worn, hubs like new). I was considering aluminium for budget reasons, and the only rims I found in 16 holes are Kinlin XR31T (500 grs) and Velocity DeepV (580 grs). I guess that such heavy rims will allow for a strong build with heavy spokes (even with 16/20 spokes only).

by Weenie


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