The wheelbuilding thread

Wheels, Tires, Tubes, Tubeless, Tubs, Spokes, Hookless, Hubs, and more!

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LeDuke
Posts: 2021
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:39 am
Location: Front Range, CO

by LeDuke

F45 wrote:I wouldn't bother with the EXP hubs. Maybe find a pre-EXP unit. I stop by the bike shop once every couple of weeks and every time I see a new EXP hub going out for warranty. Shop owner says they messed up the design.
They messed up the hardening of the ratchet.

Simple swap. Email your local DT Swiss service center. They’ll send you the ratchet for free.


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Takeswood
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:54 am
Location: France

by Takeswood

alcatraz wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:06 am
Yeah, bitex and cx-sprint should make a better performing wheelset than dtswiss and cx-ray. Not a bad choice for a low 24 spoke count and average geometry.
Thanks for your help :thumbup:
alcatraz wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:17 am
Forgot to mention that hubs can last a lifetime. After rims and spokes break/wear out or look terrible, the hubs can go to the next wheelset. That way the investment isn't that huge.
Even with Bitex Hubs ?
jever98 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:59 pm
@takeswood - if available, check out the newmen road hubs. They are also a bit cheaper than carbon ti and look nice in terms of geometry and bearing size
They aren't available at my LBS, but I agree, I see lot of great comments on these hubs.

by Weenie


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alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Takeswood wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:23 am
Even with Bitex Hubs ?
With this particular bitex hub, yes. I've seen some hubs with small bearings wear out axles and that would require a more costly service, replacing of larger parts.

There are some freehub design also that are crap. I believe it was dtswiss but I can't say for sure. Both bearings had to be pressed in from the same side, past one of the bearing seats, effectively wearing out that bearing seat. Quite crappy. That freehub is going to need to be replaced after a few bearing replacements.

But to be fair, my point of the argument was to go to carbonti. Check to see if the price is inflated. Maybe you can buy the spokes and the rims from them, but get the hubs elsewhere, and not bust your budget.

Takeswood
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:54 am
Location: France

by Takeswood

alcatraz wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:06 am
Takeswood wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:23 am
Even with Bitex Hubs ?
With this particular bitex hub, yes. I've seen some hubs with small bearings wear out axles and that would require a more costly service, replacing of larger parts.

There are some freehub design also that are crap. I believe it was dtswiss but I can't say for sure. Both bearings had to be pressed in from the same side, past one of the bearing seats, effectively wearing out that bearing seat. Quite crappy. That freehub is going to need to be replaced after a few bearing replacements.

But to be fair, my point of the argument was to go to carbonti. Check to see if the price is inflated. Maybe you can buy the spokes and the rims from them, but get the hubs elsewhere, and not bust your budget.
I know Carbon-TI are the best, but they are really expensive you know...
I have to choose between DT350 / DT240s EXP / Bitex BX312. I search the most reliable hubs with the best geometry between these 3 hubs to make really good durability wheels (with Venn VAR 507).

Mortecouille
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:16 pm
Location: France

by Mortecouille

Takeswood wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:59 am
alcatraz wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:39 am
24 cx-ray spokes on realatively small diameter flanges of the dt240, does not sound like a performance wheel. It's fine for light riders perhaps. The hub might be endurance but the spokes aren't. So it's a slight mismatch.

What I mean, that's a lot of money and it's not going to compete with big brand wheels except with weight.

To maximize the potential of a spoke you need good geometry. To get a really solid performing wheel with standard hub geometries you either need a few more light spokes or some bigger spokes.

If you aren't going to ride in crap conditions then try Bitex and 24 5gr spokes perhaps. Save some dough.

If you want to splurge on luxury then carbon-ti cx-ray perhaps. Those hubs can make good use of the lighter spokes.

Or if you want an endurance wheel then dtswiss and 5gr spokes (not cx-ray)
Interesting, I don't know that, thank you for that.
You mean, CX-ray is not the "all-rounder" spokes ? I will must go with Sapim Race for example ? CX-sprint ?

I think I will choose Bitex hubs, quite good geometry, relatively light and save money. I have pair of alloy + Hope RS4 wheel for bad winter weather.

I'm 74kg with 360w @ FTP, mostly a puncher. I want something stiff and durable for my aero wheels.
See viewtopic.php?f=113&t=163895&hilit=bitex#p1658707

If you are a puncher with 360w FTP, I don't know how long the freehub will last.
Sorry for my english

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Good point. Might need a steel freehub (if available) for bitex.

However, aren't Carbon-ti and Dtswiss also aluminum? Maybe they're harder.

Mortecouille
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:16 pm
Location: France

by Mortecouille

They make a titanium freehub body : http://www.bitexhubs.com/htm/pd_detail.php?no=R07-KHF2 but I can't find a vendor offering it to see the price.

I'm not sure if the problem of deformation at the base of the pawls would really be solved. Titanium will take longer to chew, but it will eventually happen, no?
Sorry for my english

Takeswood
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:54 am
Location: France

by Takeswood

Thank you all for your response. Yes I'm quite affraid of lifetime with Bitex hubs... I think I will go to DTswiss with 240 EXP (despite engagement problems).

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

The dt freehub design is good for punchy riding. There are tons of engagement points. Don't go cx-ray for that kind of riding. I'd go so far as 6gr spokes (on the rear wheel) for zippy accelerations. Remember that steel is steel. There's no "magic" in the brand or type of steel spoke. What often happens is that a builder has a large inventory of a preferred spoke they like to work with, so the wheels get built with those. "i got lots of strong riders on my wheels and they're not complaining". That's not quite the same as customized for the intended use.

Takeswood
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:54 am
Location: France

by Takeswood

alcatraz wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 12:37 am
The dt freehub design is good for punchy riding. There are tons of engagement points. Don't go cx-ray for that kind of riding. I'd go so far as 6gr spokes (on the rear wheel) for zippy accelerations. Remember that steel is steel. There's no "magic" in the brand or type of steel spoke. What often happens is that a builder has a large inventory of a preferred spoke they like to work with, so the wheels get built with those. "i got lots of strong riders on my wheels and they're not complaining". That's not quite the same as customized for the intended use.
Yes I understand, I will go to DT240 EXP.
With this hub my wheelbuilders suggests me Pillar wings20. It's more strenght than Cx-ray thanks to my reading here, but same weight. What do you think about this build ?

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Structurally I just see 4/5/6gr steel spokes.

For aero savings go bladed with internal nipples. 6gr spokes for rear wheel crit/punchy riding.

joeeboh
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:50 am

by joeeboh

Planning a first wheel build.

Taking dt 350 hubs off a used syncros wheel set with front radial and rear 2x.

Would I have to reuse the same 2x lacing for the rear wheel? Am considering a non drive radial and 2x or 1x drive lace. Heard that changing spoke patterns might weaken the hub flange.

Any drawbacks to sticking with 2x on the rear? Read from Sheldon brown that a radial + 2x combo is stronger.

Plan is to lace these up with archetypes and pillar 1420s.

I'm 72kg for reference

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alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Are they J-bend hubs? 20/24 holes front/rear? Rim brake?

Strong competitive riding?
Do you prefer endurance or lightweight?
Had wheels fail in the past?
Previously ridden wheels?
Did you like them or is there something you like to improve?

joeeboh
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:50 am

by joeeboh


alcatraz wrote:Are they J-bend hubs? 20/24 holes front/rear? Rim brake?

Strong competitive riding?
Do you prefer endurance or lightweight?
Had wheels fail in the past?
Previously ridden wheels?
Did you like them or is there something you like to improve?
Thanks for these questions.

Not competitive at all. Done ftp test on a trainer at about 200w

Yes j bend hubs, yes 20/24

Prefer lightweight, yet stiff and preferably with a wide inner width and a reliable braking surface in the wet. At this point im open to any advice/build suggestions

No wheels have failed, but I have suspected loose spokes when riding over potholes. Heard a clank as I went over but spokes felt fine to the touch. I pressed them and they seemed well torsioned but I have no clue what they should feel like.

I'd say I like light, wide rims, ideally with an alloy brake track. The Tune TSR 35 seems like a great choice, but I'm bent on having a go at wheel building with these dt350s that came with the syncros.

Ridden:
Chinese carbon laced to bitex r13 hubs, loved the price and the weight. Sold eventually as I felt that the braking in wet weather does not inspire confidence
dt460 laced to novatec hubs, liked the wide 17/18 inner rim width. Rims felt stiff. Was my daily wheel before I sold them to buy the heds
Hed Ardennes plus, absolutely loving the weight and the wide rims, but brake tracks look like they might be wearing out soon
Also tried the fulcrum zeros for one ride. hubs were really smooth and wheels were stiff and responsive.

As an aside, any good ideas with what to do with the spare spokes and rims?

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alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

Spokes are always tricky to reuse unless you're a busy builder. If your new rims have the same ERD (wheelbuilding diameter) you can reuse them all. Sometimes you can reuse some. A rim brake wheelset has up to three different lengths. Don't mix the spoke type on a flange.

You can try and find a lacing pattern that suits the length you have but in doing so you often compromise on the wheel. Personally I just measure them and tape them with the length and kind written on them.Then you can check before you order new spokes.

Spokes that have been used in wheels that have failed before are of questionable reliability. It's possible they are fatigued.

If the wheels you plan on disassembling have a value greater than the part you're trying to harvest, then it might be worth selling and getting another part new. Loose spokes and rims are generally not valuable 2nd hand. It's a situation you probably want to avoid, to collect 2nd hand rims and spokes.

Sounds like alloy rims are a good choice for you. They have more consistent braking performance in all kinds of conditions. I'm not good at recommending alloy rims. Popular for their value are Kinlin rims. They're available in 22, 26 and 30mm if memory serves. 24mm external width.

If you choose a shallower rim then the spokes musn't be low weight. You might get away with 4gr spokes on a 30mm rim, certainly for most front wheels ok, but for a rear wheel you need to take care and not go ultralight + shallow rim. The rear rim takes more of a beating even for casual riding and as such you'd best avoid 4gr spokes there. For the shallowest of rims like 22mm then even 5gr spokes could be the wheelset's weakest point. For 30mm 5gr is a better match.

2x:2x is the preferred lacing pattern for most 24h rear hubs, for professional wheels even. It is true you can gain a percentage point higher lateral stiffness with 0x:2x (radial nds, 2x ds) by shortening the NDS spokes but you effectively half the torque transmitting spokes which can lead to creaking if a stronger rider rides the wheels or if you try to muscle the bike out of saddle up a steep climb.

by Weenie


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Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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