The wheelbuilding thread
Moderator: robbosmans
Forum rules
The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.
If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.
If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
-
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:17 pm
Hello wheelbuilders,
I'm looking to put together my first set of wheels, here is my plan...
Rims: Light Bicycle U-shape 45mm tubeless compatible
Hubs: Bitex Raf9/Rar10
Spokes; Sapim CX Ray
Nipples: Suggestions??? Planning on using for mostly summer rider and the occasional winter ride, Alu vs Brass?
Rim tape: Tesa (thanks cycle clinic)
Tyres: Hutchinson/Mavic tubeless
Sealant: Effeto mariposa (although looking for something a bit thicker)
Does anyone know a good source of information instructing novices on building their first wheelset/have any comments/suggestons about what components I am planning to use. Also if anyone knows where I can get any of them on the cheap at the moment I would be upmost greatful!
Thanks!
I'm looking to put together my first set of wheels, here is my plan...
Rims: Light Bicycle U-shape 45mm tubeless compatible
Hubs: Bitex Raf9/Rar10
Spokes; Sapim CX Ray
Nipples: Suggestions??? Planning on using for mostly summer rider and the occasional winter ride, Alu vs Brass?
Rim tape: Tesa (thanks cycle clinic)
Tyres: Hutchinson/Mavic tubeless
Sealant: Effeto mariposa (although looking for something a bit thicker)
Does anyone know a good source of information instructing novices on building their first wheelset/have any comments/suggestons about what components I am planning to use. Also if anyone knows where I can get any of them on the cheap at the moment I would be upmost greatful!
Thanks!
have you tried riding your bike harder?
-
- in the industry
- Posts: 396
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 8:32 pm
- Location: Connecticut, USA
Hi WinterRider,
I haven't been able to measure any difference in spring rate due to different air volume.
Instead, the data suggest pressure alone drives spring rate. (At least among the high-end tires of similar construction tested.)
Not sure how a FB link might show up in this forum, but here's some data in a graph: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
Cheers,
Damon
Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo
Engineering Manager, Road Bikes
Cycling Sports Group, Cannondale
Ex-Kestrel, ex-Velomax, ex-Trek, ex-Cervelo
-
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:03 am
Rebuilding some wheels and thinking of changing the spokes to Sapim CX-Sprints. I weigh about 91kg and have been recommended these spokes over the stock ones as they are better for us heavy riders....is this correct?
I'd like to ask if sapim spokes are a bit softer in general?
Seems taiwanese spokes like pillar/cn have less deflection for a given tension.
I also heard a rumor that wheels built light with sapim are more prone to brake rub and that they should go with "pillar". Any truth to this?
/a
Seems taiwanese spokes like pillar/cn have less deflection for a given tension.
I also heard a rumor that wheels built light with sapim are more prone to brake rub and that they should go with "pillar". Any truth to this?
/a
-
- in the industry
- Posts: 5777
- Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
- Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
- Contact:
Spoke stiffness is dependent on the dimensions and shape not who makes it. The Young's modulus of the steels used is very similar if not the same.
Sapim make a very stiff aero spoke called the CX force. I buy them but they oem only. They actually make many aero spokes.
Compare like with like not apples and oranges.
Sapim make a very stiff aero spoke called the CX force. I buy them but they oem only. They actually make many aero spokes.
Compare like with like not apples and oranges.
Exactly, stiffness is only determined by spoke cross sectional area and material (which is ususally steel).
Even spoke tension does *not* affect stiffness.
Even spoke tension does *not* affect stiffness.
Pillar 1422 spokes are made from 2mm-1.6mm-2mm spokes vs
cx-ray who are 2mm-1.5mm-2mm
Pillar 1420 are 2mm-1.5mm-2mm like cx-ray
http://www.pillarspoke.com/p03-2_butted_aero.htm
cx-ray who are 2mm-1.5mm-2mm
Pillar 1420 are 2mm-1.5mm-2mm like cx-ray
http://www.pillarspoke.com/p03-2_butted_aero.htm
I'm referring to forging process differences and other such influences on performance other than dimension.
I know that steel is steel but I sometimes on rare occasion get indications that it maybe isn't. I can on the top of my head recall three instances.
1. When a new lighter spoke is introduced claiming higher tensile strength for a smaller crosssectional area like megalite ss or super cx and so on.
2. Respectable (in my book) youtuber ozcycle seeing a pattern among his riding mates having generally more brake rub with sapim and less with pillar.
3. My recent purchase of a tensionometer that in its conversion table shows, for similar crossectional area, spokes with a larger measured deflection for some spokes (including sapim) compared to other spokes (like pillar/cn) at same tension. (pillar xtra 1420, sapim cx-ray, cn424)
I'm just worried there is a pattern here. I haven't built a wheel with sapim yet but I'm hesitating a bit to pay the premium price.
Is it possible they are more elastic?
/a
I know that steel is steel but I sometimes on rare occasion get indications that it maybe isn't. I can on the top of my head recall three instances.
1. When a new lighter spoke is introduced claiming higher tensile strength for a smaller crosssectional area like megalite ss or super cx and so on.
2. Respectable (in my book) youtuber ozcycle seeing a pattern among his riding mates having generally more brake rub with sapim and less with pillar.
3. My recent purchase of a tensionometer that in its conversion table shows, for similar crossectional area, spokes with a larger measured deflection for some spokes (including sapim) compared to other spokes (like pillar/cn) at same tension. (pillar xtra 1420, sapim cx-ray, cn424)
I'm just worried there is a pattern here. I haven't built a wheel with sapim yet but I'm hesitating a bit to pay the premium price.
Is it possible they are more elastic?
/a
-
- in the industry
- Posts: 5777
- Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
- Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
- Contact:
I did my degree in materials engineering. The one thing I know is you worries and not grounded in physics.
Brake rub happens because a stiff rim is used that is not properly supported by the spokes so when the wheel is side loaded the rim does not bend. The way to stop this is to up the spoke count or use thicker spokes not use a different brand of spokes. that you tuber is talking junk like most of them. your youtuber is not likely to be comparing the same rim, hub and spoke count with only the spoke varying. Then add a pillar spoke is not a copy of a sapim so yes they are different. Then add the different side loads not measured that each rider generates and you have a receipe for nonsense.
Similar cross section is not the same that why the different spokes show differing deflections.
What you paying for with sapim is the consistancy of the spokes.
Dont get your physics from babbling you tubers it all junk. Instead read up and think logically. Then again if people did that we would resolve all the worlds problems and everyone would build good wheels and I would be out of business. on second thoughts keep listening to babbling you tubers.
Brake rub happens because a stiff rim is used that is not properly supported by the spokes so when the wheel is side loaded the rim does not bend. The way to stop this is to up the spoke count or use thicker spokes not use a different brand of spokes. that you tuber is talking junk like most of them. your youtuber is not likely to be comparing the same rim, hub and spoke count with only the spoke varying. Then add a pillar spoke is not a copy of a sapim so yes they are different. Then add the different side loads not measured that each rider generates and you have a receipe for nonsense.
Similar cross section is not the same that why the different spokes show differing deflections.
What you paying for with sapim is the consistancy of the spokes.
Dont get your physics from babbling you tubers it all junk. Instead read up and think logically. Then again if people did that we would resolve all the worlds problems and everyone would build good wheels and I would be out of business. on second thoughts keep listening to babbling you tubers.
So do steel alloys and forging/tempering/butting processes not influence the spokes performance?
Even if it's a very small influence, it sounds like you lean towards there being no influence. That is a very black and white approach. Isn't there more to it?
/a
Even if it's a very small influence, it sounds like you lean towards there being no influence. That is a very black and white approach. Isn't there more to it?
/a
Performance = stiffness or performance = durability?alcatraz wrote:So do steel alloys and forging/tempering/butting processes not influence the spokes performance?
Even if it's a very small influence, it sounds like you lean towards there being no influence. That is a very black and white approach. Isn't there more to it?
/a
The first, tour won’t really change stiffness with what you mentioned (butting, if you reduce section yes, the process itself, really minor in anisotropic properties changes).
The second , yes you have a hell lot mor variations on durability based on the process.
Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓ Broad Selection ✓ Worldwide Delivery ✓
www.starbike.com
-
- in the industry
- Posts: 5777
- Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 7:25 pm
- Location: Glermsford, Suffolk U.K
- Contact:
Heat treatment affect the fatigue properties of the spoke. It's dimension and length and the alloying elents determine stiffness.
There maybe a small effect of heat treatment on Young's modulus but it is small and inconsequential. The heat treatments aero spokes undergo after cold forging may differ but they are not going different enough to change the Young's modulus of the steel. Given spokes are made from the same stainless the physical properties are almost the same. The difference s come from the different dimensions of the spokes.
There maybe a small effect of heat treatment on Young's modulus but it is small and inconsequential. The heat treatments aero spokes undergo after cold forging may differ but they are not going different enough to change the Young's modulus of the steel. Given spokes are made from the same stainless the physical properties are almost the same. The difference s come from the different dimensions of the spokes.