Glueing tubulars [the tubular thread]

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
addictR1
Posts: 1652
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:11 am

by addictR1

ok, i tried the Cargona remover last night and was able to get more off. guess you have to keep on doing it. one thing i don't like is when i wipe with towel, it just smears it all over rather than picking it up. then i'd had to use goof off and acetone (alternating) to make sure everything is cleaned off.

i got another wheel to do so will keep trying it and see how it works out. :)

by Weenie


Rex
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:22 pm

by Rex

Maybe it's not dry enough. It shouldn't smear, more like roll off in clumps and attach to your rag. The annoying part is the small parts that fall in your spoke holes. You want to vaccuum them out as much as you can, wait until just before re-gluing so the Carogna should have hardenned into small balls and be easier to vaccuum..

addictR1
Posts: 1652
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:11 am

by addictR1

Yup turned out I ended up using a popsicle stick to push it off. Now both rim are squeaky clean


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Catagory6
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:36 am

by Catagory6

i'm reading through as much of this thread as possible, and maybe its covered somewhere in the pages i haven't gotten to yet. but some of the info i've come across so far:

gluing can be messy and hard to align a tire. but the rim/tire bond is stronger than taping
taping is a whole lot easier and less messy. possibly lesser quality road feel. possibly not as strong as a quality gluing job

but i was wondering if a tape-layer could be used instead of the 3rd glue layer

1. glue layer on rim
1. glue layer on tire
let dry 24 hours
1 tape layer over rim glue
mount tire

does this make any sense at all to anybody who knows more than i do?

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Calnago
Posts: 8152
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

- Use Vittoria Mastik One, and below is what I do, as per the instructions on the box of Vittoria Mastik One glue tubes.
- One THIN layer on rim bed, be sure to go all the way to the edges as that is the most important area to obtain a good bond;
- One thin layer on base tape;
- Hang to dry for awhile. I usually come back next day or later that same night if I’ve done the first layers in the morning.
- One more THIN layer on rim. Don’t panic at this point. It’s your first time. Take a breath. Consider this a learning experience. If it’s not perfect this time, the world will not end and the tire will likely roll around in a circle pretty much the same as if you’d done a perfect job.
- get a board or something on the floor to put the wheel on as you mount the tire, little air in it, sometimes I have hardly any air in it. Start at the valve, stretch the tire evenly around the rim, when you get to the bottom I can describe exactly what I’d do but it’s not rocket science and truly, the only way to learn this is to experience it yourself, with your own tires and your own rims. You’ll figure it out. Put a little air in it and if you have a truing stand throw it in there and give it a spin to see how centered the tread is. If not, spin it while holding the ends of the axle and eyeball it. Little air helps. Adjust where necessary. Again, don’t panic.
- when you’ve got it fairly centered, pump it up hard and let sit for 24 hours before riding.

Brushes: use acid brushes, they’re cheap and tossable. Use one per go round. Then start with a fresh one.
Glue: I much prefer using the small tubes. Tried a can once as I thought it would be a better way of buying it. It’s not. The solvents flash off very quickly. With small tubes, it’s always fresh, and more importantly, easy to apply. Do small sections at a time. Move quickly and smoothly. Once you stop panicking, this will become very easy and somewhat enjoyable. Takes me about 5-7 minutes to apply a thin layer around a rim or the base tape. I don’t use gloves, I don’t make a mess. And none gets on the brake track.

That’s it. It’d be a whole lot easier if you saw me do it once or twice, but there really is no substitute for learning by actually experiencing what happens when you make a few mistakes. You can read about it and watch videos which will give you the idea, but until you actually do it, it’s all just what someone else did.

Good luck.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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PinaRene
Posts: 650
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:08 pm

by PinaRene

Calnago wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:55 am

Glue: I much prefer using the small tubes. Tried a can once as I thought it would be a better way of buying it. It’s not. The solvents flash off very quickly. With small tubes, it’s always fresh, and more importantly, easy to apply. Do small sections at a time. Move quickly and smoothly. Once you stop panicking, this will become very easy and somewhat enjoyable. Takes me about 5-7 minutes to apply a thin layer around a rim or the base tape. I don’t use gloves, I don’t make a mess. And none gets on the brake track.

Good luck.
Great tutorial Calnago, but if I can give just one little help for the can problem. I use a can, and fill a 20ml. injector with some glue, it won't gine a mess and the can stay closed ( no no solvent vaporates ). And 20 ml is enough to do a base tape or thin glue job on the rim. 20 ml injector is re-usable, and I use a special pig hair brush that I use for one year now. I keep it in some white spirit or diesel fuel.

Image


Suc6 or Good luck.

Etienne
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:41 am
Location: France

by Etienne

Hi, same method as Calnago ... with just a few variations :

> I use stiff & narrow paint brushes that I clean with white spirit ... the same 2 brushes since I began using tubs 10 years ago, more eco friendly :wink:

> for some tubs with heavy cloth base tape, I apply a second thin layer of glue on the tub ... Conti tubulars fall in that category.

Denavelo
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:01 pm

by Denavelo

Catagory6 wrote:
Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:23 am
i'm reading through as much of this thread as possible, and maybe its covered somewhere in the pages i haven't gotten to yet. but some of the info i've come across so far:

gluing can be messy and hard to align a tire. but the rim/tire bond is stronger than taping
taping is a whole lot easier and less messy. possibly lesser quality road feel. possibly not as strong as a quality gluing job

but i was wondering if a tape-layer could be used instead of the 3rd glue layer

1. glue layer on rim
1. glue layer on tire
let dry 24 hours
1 tape layer over rim glue
mount tire

does this make any sense at all to anybody who knows more than i do?
So you're going to use glue and tubular tape? :shock:

Alinging a tire isn't hard at all... A wise man once told me "The only things hard in life, are the things that we make hard on ourselves.." Alinging a tubular tire isn't figuring out the math of landing the mars rover safely onto an exo planet. Just hold the wheel at the both ends of the hubs, spin is slowly in the air with the background being a near distant wall so that you can see the hops. Once you see the hop, stop the rotation and center the tire. Once you've gotten it all the way centered and no hops, I inflate to around 110psi and roll the wheel back and forth on the ground to aid in the glue mending process.

It's that easy..

Adding tape on top of glue sounds like a mess I would like to avoid like glass in the bike lane.
Speedvagen Road Machine "2011 Surprise me | Rob English "Mudfoot" 29er | Focus Izalco Max

Nick112
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:20 pm

by Nick112

Hi all,

As you all did once I suppose, I have gloued and mounted my first tubular wheel. Did accordingly to the recommendations here, pre stretched on the rim, glued, dried, inflated w 140 psi for 24 h to let the glue harden.

I read through the threads but just want to ask a few questions.

Rim zipp 202 tubular, rim, not firecrest
Tire: challenge criterium cs 320 25 mm

Glue was schwalben tubular glue, I glued 2 thin layers on the tire and in total 3 thin layers on the rim, though I only used about 70g grams of glue, is this normal?

After applying last layer on rim, I kind of immediately put on the tire, it kind of got sticky almost from the get go so I didnt have much time to adjust the centering of the tire, the glue was very sticky, is this normal?

Due to that, the tire is on the opposite the valve kind of not centered in terms of thread pattern, it seems like most of the people say here thats that is no problem from a security point of view, is that correct?

On boths side there a couple of millimeters visible of the whiter cotton of the tire, is this normal? Zipp 202 is according to zipp optimized for 25 mm widht, and still there is, to me it looks like, a bit to much ( a 2-4 mm on each side) visible of the cotton on the tire. Can something be wrong?

Once it dried 24 hours, I released the air and did the thumb test, and the tire is glued pretty good all the way around, what should I feel or look out for when I try the wheel on the bike for the first time?

I cleaned the rim afterwards w a bit of aceton on the rim braking surface, the wheels have been use for ca 500 km, and it was very dirty, despite I have cleaned it once with soap and water. Cleaning rim brake area of zipp w a rag and aceton, recommended or not?

Thanks a lot and sorry for a long post

Nick112
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:20 pm

by Nick112

That is 70 grams of glue for one rim and one tire.

Nick112
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:20 pm

by Nick112

Oh I forgot, using 20 ml in each tire of caffelatex sealant against punctures, is that recommended or not? Thanks

addictR1
Posts: 1652
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:11 am

by addictR1

nick.. wow.. that's a lot of layers, but i did that when i got my first tubular wheelset. then on my 2nd wheelset, c24, i just put 1 layer on rim, 1 layer on veloflex carbons and then 1 to mount. even that in itself i needed to use a lever to peel it off.

KCookie
Posts: 1456
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:40 am
Location: Pom living in Australia

by KCookie

70g, wow tape is only 30g. Two layers on the rim and one on the tyre with Vittoria Mastic is approx 22g, Victoria Mastic pro one layer on rim and tyre 11g. I actually prefer the Mastic pro and I find it a lot easier to align the tyre. I tried the normal Mastic and it stuck to quickly completely out of line which resulted in me ripping it off.
Yes cleaning the brake track with acetone is fine, I usually do this every 3-4 rides. Lightweight make their own wipes but that's quite costly. Don't really need sealant in the tyre as a preventative just when you puncture, orange seal is great, just carry a small amount with you.
As I'm still new to gluing another member suggested to mask the wheel before hand to save getting glue all over the rim, which I have two wheels ready to go. I'm sure this will help me not worry, rush and panic through the process. Obviously the more confidence and experience I get this process might not be needed.

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