Glueing tubulars [the tubular thread]

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
Jugi
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:10 am

by Jugi

Like Calnago mentioned some posts back, tubular glue is contact cement - adhesion happens under pressure. Of course centering isn't silly easy like with tape, but it can be done by pumping just some pressure to the tire to achieve a round profile, and then center as necessary.

by Weenie


KCookie
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Location: Pom living in Australia

by KCookie

First step completed today. Glued the rim and tyre. Just hope I've used enough glue. Keep reading apply a thin layer but how thin is thin.
I must admit it feels quite satisfying. Will apply the second layer on the rim tomorrow evening and keep my fingers crossed is goes well.

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KCookie
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Location: Pom living in Australia

by KCookie

Well that was a bloody disaster. Struggled to get the tyre on even though pre stretched for two weeks, got a massive wobbly in the tyre, base tape was showing in one area so in my anger ripped off the tyre and now the rim is smothered in glue remover.
Gluing is definitely not for me. Tape is so much quicker and easier and to be honest not much of a weight difference and I did weigh the wheel after gluing. At least I tried but I admit i am shit at everything to do with bikes no matter what the job.
Obviously the tyre has been glued so do you think it will be ok to use with tape or is that now useless.
Cheers all.ImageImage

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kgibbo1868
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:36 pm

by kgibbo1868

Just have another go at it, practice makes perfect!
2019 Baum Ristretto
Pain is my friend!

KCookie
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Location: Pom living in Australia

by KCookie

kgibbo1868 wrote:Just have another go at it, practice makes perfect!
Can't be bothered. Sitting here stripping the glue off. Image
When the front needs changing I might, but I think tape will win.

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LouisN
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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:44 am
Location: Canada

by LouisN

That's where a pre stretched tubular (months in advance) is handy. It goes on very easy, especially the handmade cotton ones, like Veloflex.
I also let my last glue layer dry for an hour before installing the tubular on. It lets me place the tub easier that way.
Louis :)

KCookie
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Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:40 am
Location: Pom living in Australia

by KCookie

Never had any problems mounting my Veloflex before, just got nervous, panicked a little then didn't know what to do for the best, so off it came in haste. Rim nice and clean now so ready to mount with tape. Quick, clean and easy and no more than 5 minutes. Should have done that weeks ago. 😀

addictR1
Posts: 1810
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:11 am

by addictR1

Kookie, that’s like me on the first go around. But don’t give up.

A member here posted a vid showing how he did it.

https://youtu.be/9iYr6FuLOqg

I didn’t follow completely but this is what I did. Pump till the valve turns facing you. 1 layer of mastik on Veloflex, and 1 layer on rim, letting each cure overnight.

Then 1 more layer on Veloflex before mounting. I release some air out so the valve is now facing inward like it should be. I wait for about 5 mins where surface looks a bit dry, then I wet the tub lightly with hand. Now mount keeping one hand on the valve section and work you way around.

The light coat of water will give you some buffer time to adjust.

Then put on wheel stand, I use my Blackburn pannier rack to see where he alignment is at.

Once done, leave it overnight in your house pumped up to 130 psi and ride next day.

Been doing that for 1.5yrs now and last time I had a puncture.. I didn’t have any lever tool and couldn’t even pull it off. Had to call wifey to be my SAG...




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KCookie
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Location: Pom living in Australia

by KCookie

I did as per instructions, one thin layer on the tyre and rim, left 24hrs, then another thin layer on the rim, left 5 mins then mounted. Water seems a good idea though. I don't know if the Carbons are more supple than the Extremes as I have never had a problem mounting them, but the Extreme just didn't want to go on. When I eventually mounted the tyre it stuck in place in the wrong position as per the pic, couldn't then adjust as the bond was so good, that's where tape trumps glue, you can play around with the tyre till your hearts content. So I was basically without my wheel for two weeks, when I could have been using the wheel the same day with tape.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

@Kkookie: reading your post is like deja vu. My first experience went pretty much the same way. I had planned everything, had a tin of Conti glue ready (small tubes make the job way easier, and Vittoria Mastik over Conti glue for sure). The wrong brush (use disposable acid brushes, always), but mostly, I’m such a perfectionist that messing up was not an option, at least that was my thought. Once started, I was slow and meticulous and surprised how quickly the glue was setting up and how clogged and stiff the brush got. I even thought thicker was better, it's not. I panicked, thinking I only had a short window to do it "right". I started sweating. I kicked my cat out of the way and told my girlfriend those jeans did indeed make her look fat, and she hadn’t even asked. I sweated even more. I got some glue on the sides of the rim and the brake track. Then, using a Conti Comp I almost ripped my hands apart and broke my thumbs trying to get it on, even though I had stretched it for months. Glue was on my jeans, my hands, my t-shirt and god knows what else it touched. I swore. The cat hid under a table, it would have run further but it's paws were glued to the floor. My girlfriend started packing.
Then, it was over. That was then.

But now it’s such a smooth process. I can put a super thin coat of glue around a rim in 5 minutes with easy fluid sweeping brush strokes that wake Picasso up to watch. None gets on the rim or brake track. Tire goes on easily (as long as it’s not a Conti Comp), I straighten it out, if needed, in non panic mode, let air mostly out, roll along a broom handle to ensure good adhesion across the bed, then pump up hard and leave over night to be able to ride the next day. Now it's just happy days in the Tubular CalZone...
The benefits:
Girlfriend lost weight...


Cat actually enjoys the process now and makes a game of it...
Image

Oh, and I guess the ride quality is a bit better too.

And all is good. But I do understand if you want to say "been there, done that". Could you please send me your leftover tubes of Schwalbe Glue Remover. Because I'm sure you've learned by now, removing old glue is the hardest part.
:beerchug:
Last edited by Calnago on Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
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shimmeD
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Location: eNZed

by shimmeD

I have to say, Cal, your posts are getting more and more interesting even positively riveting. :up:
Less is more.

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dj97223
Posts: 722
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm

by dj97223

KCookie. It sounds like you are committed to tape, but should you ever be tempted back to glue, here are a couple of tips.

I suspect you didn't forcefully stretch the tire as you installed it; it is important to stretch and place the middle of the base tape on the middle of the rim when you first install.

In any event, if it is crooked, the easiest way to straighten it is to lift and center the misaligned section; it is difficult to move it over from the side using your thumbs.

I haven't tried the water trick but it looks like the guy in the vid got it pretty straight without the water, and I don't know what the trapped water might do to the bond.
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

beanbiken
Posts: 739
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

I know it's not perfect but I do like the self leveling/aligning properties of the water based Vittoria............. just don't get it on your brake tracks as it is a damn s##t to get off as it just seems to stay tacky/slimy. I have a fair amount left so will continue to use it until depleted and then maybe back to Mastik One???

BB
BB

Coffee & carbon

KCookie
Posts: 1592
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:40 am
Location: Pom living in Australia

by KCookie

Calnago wrote:@Kkookie: reading your post is like deja vu. My first experience went pretty much the same way. I had planned everything, had a tin of Conti glue ready (small tubes make the job way easier, and Vittoria Mastik over Conti glue for sure). The wrong brush (use disposable acid brushes, always), but mostly, I’m such a perfectionist that messing up was not an option, at least that was my thought. Once started, I was slow and meticulous and surprised how quickly the glue was setting up and how clogged and stiff the brush got. I even thought thicker was better, it's not. I panicked, thinking I only had a short window to do it "right". I started sweating. I kicked my cat out of the way and told my girlfriend those jeans did indeed make her look fat, and she hadn’t even asked. I sweated even more. I got some glue on the sides of the rim and the brake track. Then, using a Conti Comp I almost ripped my hands apart and broke my thumbs trying to get it on, even though I had stretched it for months. Glue was on my jeans, my hands, my t-shirt and god knows what else it touched. I swore. The cat hid under a table, it would have run further but it's paws were glued to the floor. My girlfriend started packing.
Then, it was over. That was then.

But now it’s such a smooth process. I can put a super thin coat of glue around a rim in 5 minutes with easy fluid sweeping brush strokes that wake Picasso up to watch. None gets on the rim or brake track. Tire goes on easily (as long as it’s not a Conti Comp), I straighten it out, if needed, in non panic mode, let air mostly out, roll along a broom handle to ensure good adhesion across the bed, then pump up hard and leave over night to be able to ride the next day. Now it's just happy days in the Tubular CalZone...
The benefits:
Girlfriend lost weight...
Image

Cat actually enjoys the process now and makes a game of it...
Image

Oh, and I guess the ride quality is a bit better too.

And all is good. But I do understand if you want to say "been there, done that". Could you please send me your leftover tubes of Schwalbe Glue Remover. Because I'm sure you've learned by now, removing old glue is the hardest part.
:beerchug:
Awesome post Calnago.
I was so meticulous when applying the glue, nice thin and even with as you say an acid brush. Was really happy with the outcome, felt quite rewarding. Two week pre stretched tyre I thought this is going to be easy. Then all hell broke loose, even had my 9 year old daughter pulling on the tyre, then came the hot sweats and swearing. My poor daughter got the brunt of it. As the tyre went on sideways the base tape was showing and the bond was so good i struggled to lift the tyre to straighten it. Obviously now in a mood temper took over and off it came being thrown through the air. The wife now telling my kids to keep away from me.
I think tape might be the better method for my insanity and piece around the house.
Still there's a niggle in the back of my head to not give up.
The schwable glue remover is awesome and now easy to get. I could always send some over for you.

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by Weenie


KCookie
Posts: 1592
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:40 am
Location: Pom living in Australia

by KCookie

beanbiken wrote:I know it's not perfect but I do like the self leveling/aligning properties of the water based Vittoria............. just don't get it on your brake tracks as it is a damn s##t to get off as it just seems to stay tacky/slimy. I have a fair amount left so will continue to use it until depleted and then maybe back to Mastik One???

BB
Hey mate.
That's what I used first, does get every where as the bike mechanic found out, but was easier to align the tyre.

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