Glueing tubulars [the tubular thread]

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,
@fdegrove: curious if you’ve tried the Magic Mastik?
Yes, I have. It's OK when properly applied but it does not beat Terrokal 2444 + Mastik One when it comes to low rolling resistance.
Using Terokal solely compromises your tubular though, when it punctures it's pretty much total loss.

Cheers, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

What is Terokal? Never heard of it. I just clean with acetone, and use Mastik One. No problems.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

by Weenie


fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,
Calnago wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:04 am
What is Terokal? Never heard of it. I just clean with acetone, and use Mastik One. No problems.
It's an industrial contact adhevise. Terokal 2444 reduces contact losses quite a lot but you'll have to sacrifice the tubular in the process.
One of those "Belgian cuisine" things I reckon.

You won't hear from me for a couple a years. Been hit by a bad one.

Love,

F.
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Oh so it’s another adhesive, not something you use alongside Mastik One, but instead of.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,

Indeed it's a contact type glue with a very strong bond. You can use it along with Mastik One but you'll get the lowest rolling resistance using Terokal exclusively.
It's being used by TT guys for years now.

Cheers, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

Geoff
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by Geoff

Great to 'hear' from you, Frank. You have been missed.

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Calnago
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by Calnago

Pretty sure I don’t need a stronger bond than Mastik One provides, at least for road riding. You already need to be careful removing a tire from a carbon rim bed so as not to pull up any of the fiber layups along with it.
But I’m all for just two very thin layers of Mastik One on the rim (the second being applied just before mourning). One layer on the base tape, applied the same time as the first layer on the rim. 12-24 hours between that first layer and the second, just before mounting. Can’t even imagine how they’d really ascertain any difference in rolling resistance that was greater than the margin of error in what they’re actually measuring. But I suppose that’s the nature of these tests these days.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,
Geoff wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:49 pm
Great to 'hear' from you, Frank. You have been missed.
Thanks, Geoff. Hope all is well at your end.

Cheers, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

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PinaRene
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by PinaRene

Hey guys ...Frank is back. :thumbup:

Question Frank - Would love to try Terokal 2444 - but is it heat resistant enough ? According to the website it's good for 90 degrees C . And for information - I've tried the first version of the Vittoria Magic Mastic, but didn't do the job for me - now I use Conti glue for a while - maybe Terokal for a try soon.

fdegrove
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by fdegrove

Hi,

@PinaRene, thanks for the warm welcome.
Question Frank - Would love to try Terokal 2444 - but is it heat resistant enough ?
The only problem I know of is that it sticks so well you may have to cut the tubular to get it off the rim.
I use it as a base layer on the rim mostly. If you go full Terokal you will definitely feel the reduced rolling resistance just as I and friends of mine do.
Applied by thin layers but well spread it sure does its magic for me.

O yes, I know some think it's just a myth but tubulars made of natural rubber aged properly do puncture less frequently. The rolling resistance penalty is really negligible.
FWIW I'm running 10 years old Veloflex Carbons that have seen the better side of 60.000 km of leisurely rides and are still good for more mileage.
True I do not race them but I do push them through all kinds of rough terrain. I can still do Landen-Namur (55km) in about 2 hours on these babies with peaks of 55km/h. That's a windy stretch with quite a few crossings and it ain't exactly flat either. Just saying.

So yeah, give it a trie it may surprise you.

Cheers, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

rk0087
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 2:05 am

by rk0087

Best to stretch the tires on a rim. This is the most important part to avoid getting glue on the side walls. Stretch the tire by putting on a rim and pump up the tire. Let sit at least 24 hours to stretch. I usually go longer. PRACTICE putting the tire on an unglued rim a few times. Try not to roll the tire over the rim (this is how you get glue on the tire).


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jlok
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by jlok

what if there's no spare wheel to stretch the tire?
Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Kurets
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Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:55 pm

by Kurets

Certainly you have at least a spare clincher rim? Works okay, but the diameter where the tyre ends up sitting is slightly less than a tubular rim.

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Jopie666
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Location: Den Haag

by Jopie666

ImageImage

This morning in a local club race.. final corner in the final lap and this guy loses his tire....
He said he applied 2 layers on the rim and one on his tire. There isn’t any residu on the rim. I think he dindn’t sand his rims at all!
I gave him the advice to do so and apply more thin layers.
Next time it could be me crashing due to his gluing skills.
Oh, it's all right. I'm sure that we can handle this situation maturely, just like the responsible adults that we are. Isn't that right, Mr... Poopy Pants?

by Weenie


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Calnago
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by Calnago

Ouch! Maybe he didn’t sand, and maybe he didn’t even bother to clean off the new surface with a good rubdown of acetone first. Who knows, but don’t let that guy glue any of your tires. I use two thin layers of Mastik One on the rim, first layer allowed to cure for a day, same as the layer on the base tape. Once glued, it takes me 15 minutes to remove a tire, several just to get enough of an initial gap underneath just so I can slide a screwdriver between tire and rim to work around the whole thing to break the bond. Tires coming off my rims are the last thing I am concerned about. That guy is doing something wrong.
Last edited by Calnago on Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

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