Glueing tubulars [the tubular thread]

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
beanbiken
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

Well I gave some of my stock of Vittoria Magic Mastik Pro a try. Glued a Conti Sprinter Gatorskin to a Zipp Firecrest. Deliberately didn't use a Vittoria tire wanted a non-coated base tape and if the whole lot turned to the proverbial I wouldn't bleed :oops: anyway from start to finish removing the old tire (Mastik One) cleaning the rim, applying said glue & fitting/inflating/checking was circa 90 minutes. Result.......then and after checking 24 hours later as true as anything I have previously fitted. Base tape is all over the shop (which is what I would usually use as a guide) but tread is nice true an no hops or wobles. Thumb test passed without any concerns. Found it to be messier than the video shows (what a surprise) but the sticky film/residue cleans off with a little automotive wax and grease remover and a rag. Would I use it again, s@@t yeah.... Am I concerned about a road side tire swap?? well I have never carried a spare anyway. I tried the original MM and that is on my regular wheels and all good. Probably not for everyone but I liked it and I reckon I have enough for the next 4 years.... too many wheels and not enough k's.

BB
Ahhh, coffee & carbon

jasjas
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:15 am

by jasjas

Hi, when you say residue is removed with grease remover/wax? what is that?

i just used this stuff in the UK and as you say, it messier but i cant remove the residue with water, petrol, citrus greaser or Acetone.

the stuff is a xxxxing nightmare and i wish i d stuck with Mastik One.

It does centre very nicely though.

beanbiken
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

jasjas wrote:Hi, when you say residue is removed with grease remover/wax? what is that?

i just used this stuff in the UK and as you say, it messier but i cant remove the residue with water, petrol, citrus greaser or Acetone.

the stuff is a xxxxing nightmare and i wish i d stuck with Mastik One.

It does centre very nicely though.


Not sure what Auto paint brands you have in the UK but in Oz i have PPG their brand name for wax & grease remover is "Prepsol". I'm sure you will be able to purchase an equivalent from an auto parts or paint store.

BB
Ahhh, coffee & carbon

jasjas
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:15 am

by jasjas

Thank you, ok i ll try some paint degreaser, whats annoying is Vittoria repeatedly says its "easy to clean with water"

Mastik One takes about 5 or 10mins to remove all the old glue from a rim with petrol if i need too.

beanbiken
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

Ahh don't believe "degreaser" is the same. We certainly wouldn't use degreaser prior to painting a car. It may actually work better but W&G remover wipes off and leaves no residue.
BB
Ahhh, coffee & carbon

Zoro
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 am

by Zoro

I'm wanting to put 33mm wide silk cross tyres on a 20.5mm wide rim for cross. This is tubular set 5 for that bike. So I have mud, wide etc.

I have glued since late 1970s and only once dealt with tape - Tufo for road and got rid of it. But for cross it might be the right way to do it. Opinions?

Thinking the FMB tape - or any others that are good.
Again - tubulars for cross 33mm tyre on 20.5 rim - what is the best way to attach? Glue or tape?

Geoff
Posts: 5119
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

As far as I am concerned, there is still only one way to glue 'cross tires to road rims: 'Belgian'-style 'cross tape. That is not to be confused with 'tubular' glue tape (which is almost universally a bad idea).

This is 'Belgian'-style 'cross tape: http://cyclocrossworld.com/product/thor ... ular-tape/ Due to the big growth in 'cross in North America, you can actually get this type of tape in many different places. If you search our Thread here, I believe that we have posted 'cross tire gluing technique descriptions in the past.

The basic theory is that the combination of 'conventional' tubular glue (i.e., Mastik 1) and the 'Belgian'-style tape results in a very solid glue job whereby the tape 'fills-in' the extra space created between the rim bed of a 'conventional' road rim and the profile of the larger diameter 'cross tires. I am not sure that there is any other way to do that. Ok, it is a bit more work, but it really works well.

Good luck!

3Pio
Posts: 865
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

@Geoff @sungod, @Calnago, @Sawyer and others that helped me to learn tubular thing... Thanks :)

I just done thumb test to a new tire glued in the front this time (Vittoria Corsa G+ new tire). This time no mess on the tire, no on the rim, no on the fingers and almost perfect centered and thumb test passed :) And whole procedure i done very quick...

This time since i had the old glue on the rim, which seemed like ok to me, i did not clean it and just put new two thin layers (one thin to smooth everything, and second as final layer). Tire was brand new, i applied just thin coat of glue and one layer only (i checked if is tacky and smooth everywhere after 24 h).

Thanks again...

Geoff
Posts: 5119
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

Whew!

commfire
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:14 pm

by commfire

beanbiken wrote:Well I gave some of my stock of Vittoria Magic Mastik Pro a try. Glued a Conti Sprinter Gatorskin to a Zipp Firecrest. Deliberately didn't use a Vittoria tire wanted a non-coated base tape and if the whole lot turned to the proverbial I wouldn't bleed :oops: anyway from start to finish removing the old tire (Mastik One) cleaning the rim, applying said glue & fitting/inflating/checking was circa 90 minutes. Result.......then and after checking 24 hours later as true as anything I have previously fitted. Base tape is all over the shop (which is what I would usually use as a guide) but tread is nice true an no hops or wobles. Thumb test passed without any concerns. Found it to be messier than the video shows (what a surprise) but the sticky film/residue cleans off with a little automotive wax and grease remover and a rag. Would I use it again, s@@t yeah.... Am I concerned about a road side tire swap?? well I have never carried a spare anyway. I tried the original MM and that is on my regular wheels and all good. Probably not for everyone but I liked it and I reckon I have enough for the next 4 years.... too many wheels and not enough k's.

BB


Good review! Thanks. Anymore experiences with the new mastic pro glue? could be a game changer....no? I am surprised Vittoria isn't more out front with more info....no mention on their social media sites

alexgodmar
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:35 pm

by alexgodmar

Hey Tub masters,

My LBS was peeling out my old tires and the mechanic said he delaminated a bit of carbon off the rim bed (Bontrager Aeolus 5 tubs) The previous owner used glue. They re-glued the new tires on after that.

How much life left do my tubs have left? Should I add a bit of epoxy to the rim bed the next time I change my tires? Should I use tape instead of glue? I weight 57 kg so peeling my tire in a corner is not an issue.

Any input would be much appreciated. Cheers!

User avatar
Calnago
Posts: 6006
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:14 pm

by Calnago

Would have been interesting to see the mechanic in action as he was "peeling" off the old tubular. Grabbing it and yanking it off is NOT the way to remove a properly glued tire from a carbon rim for the reason you now know. Did you see the material that came off? I think you just have to use your better judgement based on how much material was removed. Your mechanic obviously didn't think it was a problem if he went and glued a new tire on top of it, but I would have liked to have seen the damage before he did so. In the future, when removing a tire work something underneath between the rim and tire then wiggle it back and forth along the whole rim evenly until you've debonded it all the way around. Not saying your mechanic used the grab and yank method, but perhaps he was in a bit of a hurry and it seemed to be the fastest way? Or, maybe the top laminate in the rim bed was simply not bonded very well in the first place.
Colnago C64 - The Naked Build; Colnago C60 - PR99; Trek Koppenberg - Where Emonda and Domane Meet;
Unlinked Builds (searchable): Colnago C59 - 5 Years Later; Trek Emonda SL Campagnolo SR; Special Colnago EPQ

alexgodmar
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:35 pm

by alexgodmar

Calnago wrote:Would have been interesting to see the mechanic in action as he was "peeling" off the old tubular. Grabbing it and yanking it off is NOT the way to remove a properly glued tire from a carbon rim for the reason you now know. Did you see the material that came off? I think you just have to use your better judgement based on how much material was removed. Your mechanic obviously didn't think it was a problem if he went and glued a new tire on top of it, but I would have liked to have seen the damage before he did so. In the future, when removing a tire work something underneath between the rim and tire then wiggle it back and forth along the whole rim evenly until you've debonded it all the way around. Not saying your mechanic used the grab and yank method, but perhaps he was in a bit of a hurry and it seemed to be the fastest way? Or, maybe the top laminate in the rim bed was simply not bonded very well in the first place.
I wish I was there to see it too. Also didn't get the chance to see how much material came off. I guess I'll see how much damage has been done when I change my tires. Thx for the tip!

User avatar
TwiggyTN
Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:16 am

by TwiggyTN

Yeah, I mean the guy couldn't even snap a cell phone picture for you? That's some sloppy work and as I did to myself many years ago, ripping the tire off the rim bed like starting your lawnmower is the easiest way to peel off some resin. Mine wasn't extensive but a lesson learned the hard way for sure.

Sent from my GT-P5113 using Tapatalk

jlok
Posts: 501
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Hi all I'm tubular newbie. I dive into tubular sea because I'm building a new c-brake bike to join some local racing. And I think why not try to glue mine to understand why you guys are so into it...

anyway, I have already done the 1st base layer on the rim and the lovely Vittoria Corsa, and read through some pages up to ard 60...

one thing I'm not so sure is the actual mounting step below. Would the grabbing of the tire "damage" the dry glue layer on the tire?
https://www.parktool.com/assets/img/rep ... e_2-73.jpg
Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post