Glueing tubulars [the tubular thread]

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
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PinaRene
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:08 pm

by PinaRene

Nice clean rim surface !

2 weeks ago I glued some Vittoria Corsa Grapheen + 25mm on my Bora's. I took the Conti Competition 22mm and Schwalbe One 24mm off the rims and cleaned them a bit with acetone. The very thin layer that was still on the rim gave a good bond with the Vittoria's, as they where also pre-glued ( bought 10 of them 25mm Vittoria's for a good price - once used very thin layer of glue - profile 98% :wink: ).

So I used some sandpaper on the rims to break the existing layer of glue, and then added one layer of Conti glue ( I always use Conti Glue for carbon ). Also added one layer to the Vittoria's and let them rest for 8 hours or so. Added another thin layer of glue to the rims - waited for a few ( like 10 ) minutes or so - used my water method as you can see in my signature and bonded the tires to the rims. Tires are straight on the rims like a drag race strip - and thumb test is perfect after 24hrs. We had a nice ride last Sunday to France from the Netherlands Vice - Versa 240 Km and the tubulars are great. I used some Aquasure on the tan side of the tubular tires though to keep them clean and look like new.

The original Continental tubular wasn't worn yet, but the cobble stones and bad pavement in Belgium made me to go for the Vittoria's. In the video I used a Fulcrum Racing speed wheel / Mavic 23mm Tubular tire.

by Weenie


Geoff
Posts: 5097
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

@3Pio, well, I personally use more layers on the rim and tire, but I lay them down more like a film of glue.

I have always put the last layer on the basetape just before installing the tire. It goes on easily and is easy to straighten before it sets-up. I was just taught to do it that that way a loooong time ago.

3Pio
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Geoff wrote:@3Pio, well, I personally use more layers on the rim and tire, but I lay them down more like a film of glue.

I have always put the last layer on the basetape just before installing the tire. It goes on easily and is easy to straighten before it sets-up. I was just taught to do it that that way a loooong time ago.


I'll try that probably the next time since i applied the layer of glue to the tire yesterday.

This how the tire was before the regluing:

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Since there is a glue missing on many spots, i decide just to apply one layer instead of touch up, even risking to have too much glue on some spots, and this is how look like after that (20 hours later):

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And i applyed first layer of glue to the rim as well, and this time i was waiting like about 40 hours before im aplying second layer (to be sure that is perfectly dry), so this is how look like:

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Now going for second layer....

Geoff
Posts: 5097
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

That all looks really good. Assuming that the rim was clean (by that, I mean without residue from whatever product was used to prepare it) and the glue is left to cure properly, there should be no way that does not result in a very strong bond.

The more I see, the more I am convinced that your glue job has been fine all along...

Kurets
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:55 pm

by Kurets

I'm 100% certain that all the glue jobs have been fine for 3Pio. To me this seems like trolling, no one can have this amount of trouble with what is really a very simple process.

3Pio
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Geoff wrote:That all looks really good. Assuming that the rim was clean (by that, I mean without residue from whatever product was used to prepare it) and the glue is left to cure properly, there should be no way that does not result in a very strong bond.

The more I see, the more I am convinced that your glue job has been fine all along...


This time i dont use base tape patches where the base tape is damaged, just put some glue there as u can see.

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Hope that wont be trouble...

And this is how rim look after the second layer of glue (now i put it to dry until tommorow when ill do the last layer and tire installation..)

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Kurets wrote:I'm 100% certain that all the glue jobs have been fine for 3Pio. To me this seems like trolling, no one can have this amount of trouble with what is really a very simple process.


Kurets, i wish im trolling u.. I bought this wheelset and tires in January, installed first time in March without big problems. And i rode it for 1850 km when i got flat rear.. Trying to install the tires since May, and this season i was riding this wheelset for only 1850 km.

Probably my thumb test was agressive, or maybe im doing something wrong in the last step, during tire installation...

So that why i got a bit frustrated since does not work for me even im doing everything properly.. But Thanks to Geoff & Sungod, i did not give up (i got a nice chance to sell the wheelset, but i refuse it...).. So Kudos to Geoff and Sungod

This time im going step by step, just to be sure that im doing fine (and hope that will be help for other tubular begginer as well)

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PinaRene
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:08 pm

by PinaRene

How is it possible that you make such a mess :? .... Even my non technical kid can colour ( read put glue ) on the basetape ..... :smartass:

I posted this tip in 2014 :

* Another tip to get the tubular tires perfectly true on the rim, and free of glue everywhere:

Put the tires on the rims and inflate them to ride pressure. Circle arround the rim on the base of the tubular tire with a fine marker after the tubular is perfect on the rim. Now remove the tubular tire and glue between the lines and then attach them to the rims. You can see where the line is to make them perfectly true on the rim.
Here you see the thin marker line after the tubular tire is straight on the rim:

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3Pio
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

PinaRene wrote:How is it possible that you make such a mess :? .... Even my non technical kid can colour ( read put glue ) on the basetape ..... :smartass:

I posted this tip in 2014 :

* Another tip to get the tubular tires perfectly true on the rim, and free of glue everywhere:

Put the tires on the rims and inflate them to ride pressure. Circle arround the rim on the base of the tubular tire with a fine marker after the tubular is perfect on the rim. Now remove the tubular tire and glue between the lines and then attach them to the rims. You can see where the line is to make them perfectly true on the rim.
Here you see the thin marker line after the tubular tire is straight on the rim:

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I was escaping from art classes in High School :) (To ride the bike :) and to go skiing..)

Dont need lines, since the base tape it self show u where to put glue..But if i try to avoid glue beside the basetape then not enough glue on on the edge.So then need to reaply again with smaller brush. Dont know.Maybe i should try with different brush...

Consider also that this tire was allready installed few times and this is the tire i first time tried to install tubulars.Which was perfect :) but after installation that first time noticed that i installed in oposite direction (clinchers Corsa G+ dont have direction and i was using them before). All problems started there i think :)


So then decided to put new tire and to keep this learning tire for the future ..The future is now :)

And dont care that much about having glue outside of the base tape, since that mess dont have function just the aesthetic which probably i ll try to get as soon as i have few successfull glued tires :)
Thanks anyway for u tip probably will try it on the next brand new...

3Pio
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:13 pm

by 3Pio

Ok, seem that this time i did it.. This time, i was trying to install the tire as center as possible (since it's deformed a litle bit, and not beeing totaly centre so the tire it'self go more in one side a little bit).

Next thing the stick or pole and i was pushing the whole tire. Then with all my weight i was tryng to push the tire as much as possible on the rim on sports close to each other... Then whole weight and rolling down.. And at the end Zip ties on valve part area, and the tire is almost perfectly centered this time..

Since now passed 30 hours from installation, i done thumb test, and all went good (not too much pressure this time). Few spots missing some contact on the edge, but nothing serious.. Not having time tonite to install on bike since im riding early in the morning, so dont want to mess something that it's working.. But i'll do it after the ride so hope first test ride Sunday or Monday..

Thank u

commfire
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:14 pm

by commfire

I stumbled across this video of Lotto Jumbo mechanic gluing tires up with Vittoria magic Mastik
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEfM_ySzKOM
I know some on this forum had less than impressive results initially but I thought it was interesting to see a Continental Pro Team using this stuff.
So what is the latest on this? Have they improved the formula? Worth giving it a shot?

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Kayrehn
Posts: 1026
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

by Kayrehn

The new product renamed as Mastik Pro seems to be available here and there now. I'll be curious about its performance as well, though I think most people like me who has tried Magic Mastik in the past might be reluctant to waste money on it...

beanbiken
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:13 pm
Location: Great Southern Land

by beanbiken

Kayrehn wrote:The new product renamed as Mastik Pro seems to be available here and there now. I'll be curious about its performance as well, though I think most people like me who has tried Magic Mastik in the past might be reluctant to waste money on it...


Totally understand. I have used the original Magic Mastik on one wheel. No issues except that it was messier than they show but that was probably just me. Have I think 5 packets of the newer MMP in my shed but haven't needed to glue new tires. Will report back once I have but expect it to be some time. Multiple wheels but not a lot of K's.......

BB
Ahhh, coffee & carbon

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PinaRene
Posts: 534
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:08 pm

by PinaRene

I've tried the Magic Mastic by Vittoria - didn't worked for me though. It didn't even passed the thumb test after 24hrs - so total waste of money. Mastik Pro is new for me , so didn't test it so far - and I am not gonna try it. I will " stick " to my own " water method " with Continental Glue for carbon rims, maybe to old fashion but all my tubulars are straight on - pass the thumb test - and are hard to get off when they need to be replaced.

Kurets
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:55 pm

by Kurets

Does anyone have a general idea about which glues stay tacky over time? I just ripped a tubular off of a damaged CX wheel (the tyre is fine, indestructible TUFO) and the glue is still tacky, and amber colored like Mastik One. However, Mastik One dries to a very hard surface, so it must be something else.
I am thinking to reglue it using MO, but it would be nice to know what the original glu might have been so that I could avoid any gross incompatibilities.
Also, for gluing CX tubulars, some people recommend glue+tape, thats quite well known by now. But I have also heard about just gluing an extra layer of basetape to the rim to build up the rim bed, has anyone tried that? I was thinking to experiment a bit with some Velox cloth tape that I have, but I don't want to try something which will have me rolling a tubular during a race :/.

sungod
Posts: 1500
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:37 pm
Location: it's raining, it must be uk

by sungod

exposed mastik one dries out completely and becomes 'dust', but where it is not exposed to air i find it retains slight tackiness for a long time

it's what makes fitting a pre-glued spare practical, even after many months the old glue on rim/spare will still bond enough to ride safely (though i avoid any hard braking/cornering)

by Weenie


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