Glueing tubulars [the tubular thread]

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
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Kayrehn
Posts: 1721
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 6:06 pm

by Kayrehn

It's still good though, not as strong as mastik one or tape but makes it up with easy one time application. When dried on the rim, it's easy to just peel or rub it off. Wearing a glove whenever you use glue is a good idea in any case.

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by Weenie


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eurostar
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: London

by eurostar

I hear you. I should have ignored the whimsical instructions. I will persist with it, but this time with a brush and gloves.

blaugrana
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:49 pm

by blaugrana

I was wondering about the belgian method (glue + tape) for cyclocross tubulars. From what I've read, FMB's CX tape is the way to go while tapes intended to be used alone (Jantex, Tufo...) don't work as well, I suppose this comes down to what adhesives are in the tape. But would some regular cotton tape with no adhesive work (available in hardware stores), provided that enough layers of Mastik glue are applied before and after so that it soaks through the tape?

I'm interested in using tape because on Mavic Reflex rims and vittoria CX (33mm) tubulars I am not getting good enough results with glue alone. With 3 coats on the rim and 2 on the tyre, I could still pull them off the rim too easily (with some force, but not enough to trust them for cornering hard while racing with very low pressures). The bond appeared to be decent on a thin strip on the sides of the rim, but it barely held at all in the center due to the mismatched rim and tyre shapes (hence why tape should help fill the gap).

In other circumstances I would just order the FMB tape, but I'd like to have the wheels ready for next weekend and I'm afraid I wouldn't receive it in time (and if I did, I might not have enough time for glueing and drying).

Geoff
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

I still think that using 'Begian' tape to fill-in the rim bed with 32s is still the way to go. Depending upon where in the world you are, Stu Thorne's offering might be a good solution, too: http://cyclocrossworld.com/product/thor ... ular-tape/ I am in Canada and it is easy for us to just get that from Stu.

blaugrana
Posts: 368
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:49 pm

by blaugrana

Thanks for that link. I finally went with the FMB tape, as I realized I could get it in time with Bike24's express shipping option (I'm in Europe). I will post again with the results once I've used it.

basilic
Posts: 949
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:05 am
Location: Geneva, Switzerland

by basilic

My first experience gluing tubulars. It's somenting that's always intimidated me...

I went with the Caden tape. It's brilliant! You apply the tape with the backing on, install the tire, inflate/deflate and center it without any adhesion, then deflate and pull the backing off from under the tire, finally inflate so the glue sticks. It took me all of 5 minutes per wheel because I kept wondering when I would mess it up. But no, it is a painless process. The Caden owner/producer has a video out that shows the procedure, very simple.

Does it work? I don't know, haven't tested the wheels yet.

Coolcat
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:21 pm

by Coolcat

I have a tubular with adhesive residue from tubular tape. I want to remount the tire, can I use Vittoria Mastik? Or will it be unsafe?

eurostar
Posts: 438
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:19 pm
Location: London

by eurostar

If you're a pro team mechanic preparing for a cyclocross race, you clean it off. If you're a normal person, you don't bother.

Coolcat
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:21 pm

by Coolcat

Just tried to glue my first set of tubulars after lots of YouTube and forum research on how to do it.

Tires: Second hand Vittoria Corsas that had been taped by the previous owner.
Rims: Second hand carbon rims with residue from tape and normal glue.
Glue: Mastik One

Residue removal from both tires and rims. I cleaned the rims using white spirit, acetone, citrus degreaser and used a hair dryer to warm up the glue and peeled. The tires were even worse to clean. I used elbow grease and hair drying, a file, sand paper, steel wool. The whole process of cleaning took three or four days on and off.

I put on two thin rim coatings with 24 h in between. These coatings looked very nice. I put on two coats on the tire base tapes, probably too much. Bumpy in some places. In all, I used half a can of Mastik One. After gluing the tires I stretched them on some old clincher rims.

First I tried to glue the rear tire. I put a thin layer of glue on the rim and stretched the tire onto the rim. The tire wasn't centered, so I manipulated it back and forth, and the tacky glue seemed to loosen from the rim and tire. Poor bonding. I didn't manage to get the tire straight enough. Gave up and took the tire off.

Then I tried the front tire. Same process, but I tried to pay more attention to centering. No luck. And there was a huge bump by the valve which didn't seat into the valve hole. Removed the tire.

The rim beds look horrible with lots of glue chunks.

So now I have two rims and tires full of glue, what a job it will be to clean it off again. I don't have the patience to try this again (and again and again), so I will buy some tubular tape and just accept the compromise.

What a pain in the a**

shimmeD
Posts: 538
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: eNZed

by shimmeD

Have you read any of this thread? I'm not going to look/read, but if you used half a tin for a set of wheels, there is something fundamentally wrong. THIN COATS!
It's not hard, but obviously it is for some, sorry it has been a horrendous experience for you.
I've never used tape, probably never will, but yeah it might be the right one for you.
Less is more.

Coolcat
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:21 pm

by Coolcat

Yes, I read some posts in this thread, mostly posts here found in Google searches, I didn't read from start to end.

The rim coats were nice and thin. I used too much glue on the tire base tapes. The base tape surface didn't look so good after removal of the previous tubular tape. I tried to clean off the residue and also the latex layer Vittoria put on their base tapes, but I didn't get that layer off everywhere. Some places of the base tape absorbed glue, while it didn't sink into other places. Quite bumpy.

I might have avoided problems by using new tires, but mounting the tires straight would still be hard. The Mastik glue gets tacky quickly, so when lifting and bending the tire to get it centered on the rim, the glue got lifted off from the rim bed, and it didn't seem to stick securely after that. I guess the trick of centering tires right at once is a skill that comes from experience. For the amount of riding I will do on these wheels, I probably won't mount tires more than once or twice a year. The rolling resistance and safety of my mediocre glue jobs is probably worse than what I would get with tubular tape.

jlok
Posts: 2012
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

Coolcat wrote:
Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:42 am
Yes, I read some posts in this thread, mostly posts here found in Google searches, I didn't read from start to end.

The rim coats were nice and thin. I used too much glue on the tire base tapes. The base tape surface didn't look so good after removal of the previous tubular tape. I tried to clean off the residue and also the latex layer Vittoria put on their base tapes, but I didn't get that layer off everywhere. Some places of the base tape absorbed glue, while it didn't sink into other places. Quite bumpy.

I might have avoided problems by using new tires, but mounting the tires straight would still be hard. The Mastik glue gets tacky quickly, so when lifting and bending the tire to get it centered on the rim, the glue got lifted off from the rim bed, and it didn't seem to stick securely after that. I guess the trick of centering tires right at once is a skill that comes from experience. For the amount of riding I will do on these wheels, I probably won't mount tires more than once or twice a year. The rolling resistance and safety of my mediocre glue jobs is probably worse than what I would get with tubular tape.
I'm also a newbie of tubular gluing. I have a little bit of experience to share:

1. Water Method. See this > viewtopic.php?f=113&t=72309&p=1579189&h ... r#p1579189

2. One Layer Method. See this > viewtopic.php?p=1578752#p1578752

3. Vittoria Corsa / Rubino Pro tubular as a start b'cos the cotton case does not require stretching and easier to install.

I have combined 1 and 2 and easily installed Vittoria Corsa Control G2.0 on my Bora One 35 DB wheels. Good luck.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

Coolcat
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:21 pm

by Coolcat

Thanks. The water method looks promising.

Geoff
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

@Coolcat, I am sorry that you had problems. Preparing tubular tires is definitly more involved than clinchers or tubeless systems are.

I note that your description of your technique suggests that you used 'half a can' of Mastik 1. The cans I use are 250g, which should probably last for a few seasons (you should easily be able to get 10 wheels glued-up with that), if you are only preparing a few sets a year.

One thing that I note that you did not say in your description was putting-down one 'fresh' layer immediately prior to affixing the tire to the rim. The purpose of doing this is to allow you enough 'give' in the glue to be able to centre the tire before it becomes rock hard (tubular glue is contact cement, so once a cured basetape goes-down on a cured rim bed, it is pretty difficult to adjust the tire). I personally prefer to put that 'wet' layer down on the basetape, although apparently most people put it on the rim bed (I was just taught to do it that way many decades ago and it works perfectly every time).

Don't give up, once you 'get' it, you will not want to stop riding the tubulars (and don't succumb to the siren's song of tape)!

fdegrove
Tubbie Guru
Posts: 5881
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 2:20 am
Location: Belgium

by fdegrove

Hi,
eurostar wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:01 pm
I've just tried Mastik Pro for the first time...the one "you can clean with water". That's "one of the many benefits." If you get some on the braking surface "just have a wet sponge handy". Total lies. From now on I won't believe a single word from Vittoria. No more tyres from them, ever. And I'm taking the glue back to Condor for a refund. (I told them I wanted it because of the 'wash off with water' claim.) AND they charged me £17.99, when the RRP is £14.16. I'm all for supporting a real shop by paying them a fair price, but 27% more than retail.... I.
It's actually the translation from Italian to English that's very badly done.
The glue is water based, that's correct. Just imagine a tubular rim cement that would dissolve in water. :roll:

Cheers fellows, ;)
Being a snob is an expensive hobby.

by Weenie


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Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

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