Glueing tubulars [the tubular thread]

Everything about building wheels, glueing tubs, etc.
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dj97223
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 pm

by dj97223

I put the last coat of glue on the rim, rather than the tire, because wet glue on a tire is more likely to make a mess when mounting if the base tape hits the brake track or your fingers hit the base tape.

The "water trick" -- I think there is a poster here who uses it and has posted a video on youtube. It seems to work for him but I have never tried it. Introducing water between the tape and rim doesn't strike me as necessarily conducive to a good bond or likely to make mounting any easier. :noidea:
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

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PinaRene
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by PinaRene

This is what I send someone on the forum here last week.

I do still use my water method. Gives just a little extra time to glue the tubular tirer in the middle because glue isn't that sticky. In the video you see it starts after pre gluing tubular tire and rim. They both had 2 layers of glue and last gluing was on the rim. Just moistening your hand and slide the tubular tire through your hand. Same with the rim. Not lots of water, just a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iYr6FuLOqg

I still use Mastik one or Continental glue for carbon wheels. Both I like, but with Continental Glue and non strechable tubulars like Mavic ( video ) or Continental I do the water method. With Veloflex or A_Dugast and Vittoria Glue I don't use it anymore. I am experienced now after doing a lots of gluing and I am fine to do that without the water method. The Mavic tubular I glue in the video is still on my son's bike and he still rides it. He has another pair of whees, and these Mavics have about 4K km on them. He rode 90 Km/h with them 2 summers ago in the Alps, so I have confidence in my gluing.

As for my own wheels, I still ride the A_Dugast on my Holdsworth and the Continental Comp. Pro LTD on my Zipp wheels and like them a lot. Had no punctures until now with them , and did The Telegraph / Galibier with the Zipp wheels last year with some other rides in the Alps.

How I came to the idea to moisture my tubular tires and rims: Well I worked with contact glue before and I thought for myself that it was tacky, no matter if you glued pieces together after a minute or 5 minutes. I tried it with water on 2 pieces of plywood and gave it some pressure and it worked well. This is why I tried it once on some tubulars, but on a set of test rims. It was an instant hit with old tubular tires and you have a little time before the glue sets between the tubular tire and the rim. The last time was last year with Continental Pro LTD tubes on my Zipp wheels. It was a perfect glue job (thumb test) as you can see on page 263 of tube gluing on the WW forum. viewtopic.php?f=113&t=72309&start=3930

My water method is still the same:

* A layer of glue on the tubular tire and the rim. Let sit for 24 hours and give the tubular tire another thin layer of glue. Then also give the rim another layer of glue and let it sit for max. 5 minutes. Then moisture the rim and tubular tire. For Continental and other non-stretch tubular tires ... note that they are completely airless. Vittoria or other strechable brands may have some air. When gluing the Continental tires, supply enough force from the valve to the right and left so that the tubular tire stretches a bit there and you don't get a whobble near the valve core.

Once glued, pump the tubular tire to 2 or 3 bars and center the thing. Once centered, blow it up to 9 bars and it will center perfectly because of the little humidity between the layers which will be pressed out / and evaporate when it reaches max. pressure.


cheapvega
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:12 pm

by cheapvega

What is the WW hivemind recommendation for light 25mm gumwall tubulars? I weigh about 87-88kg, never ride in the rain and the roads here are mostly smooth. I have Tufo Elite S3s as a placeholder in my build sheet mainly because it's a decent weight. These will be going on a Kaze rim brake wheelset if that matters.

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mendiz
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by mendiz

@cheapvega Veloflex Pro Tour Gum,very nice colour, I would choose this before another lighter with less performance
You don´t stop riding when you get old, you get old when you stop riding.

flashmatt
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:52 pm

by flashmatt

Can someone assist re some basic Vittoria Mastic One questions please?
1) I saw on a gluing tubulars youtube tutorial a reference to the fact that the outside of the newer Mastic One tube is predominantly white whereas the older tube packaging/outside is black, hence you should try and find the newer white tubes. Is that correct?
2) If you only glue wheels occasionally, would it be better to buy packs of the 30g tubes rather than a 250g tub as the latter cannot be opened, used, sealed and then used again x months later? Is that correct?
3) what retailers are peeps buying their Mastic One from (want to use one that has fresh stock ie is turning over this product regularly)?

Thanks very much

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dj97223
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by dj97223

I doubt the Mastik would expire in the tube. The can is a large volume -- too large, in my opinion-- for the occasional user. Unless you are switching a lot of tires around for some reason, you'll not use many tubes of Mastik over several years. Applying the glue from the tube probably also reduces the likelihood of drips and glue strings, though I've never used the can.

If you are in the US, worldclasscycles.com is a good source for all things tubular and nice folks to deal with. I've also bought in the local bike store and never given a second thought to the manufacture date.
“If you save your breath I feel a man like you can manage it. And if you don't manage it, you'll die. Only slowly, very slowly, old friend.”

Geoff
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

@flashmatt, I have never had a problem with older tubes that I have found lying-around. The tubes are sealed with a foil top under the screw cap. They will last a really long time. The caps actually seal-up very well, too. I have had half-finished tubes survive for years with no problems. With respect to the tins, the tin is my preference, as it is easier to apply from the tin (in my experience). If you seal the tine properly (i.e., with a mallet), those will last a long time, too.

Singular
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:59 am

by Singular

dj97223 wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:11 pm
I doubt the Mastik would expire in the tube. The can is a large volume -- too large, in my opinion-- for the occasional user. Unless you are switching a lot of tires around for some reason, you'll not use many tubes of Mastik over several years. Applying the glue from the tube probably also reduces the likelihood of drips and glue strings, though I've never used the can.
That's right; both Psimet and Mark Legg (Katie Compton's partner-in-crime-life-and-cycling) both state the importance of "fresh" glue (meaning that it hasn't been opened and exposed to air) - meaning that if you're not working through enough (in a week or two) to justify cracking a can of Mastik instead of small tubes you're better off with the latter. I do also prefer working with the small tubes as they are quite handy for application with less mess in the servizio corse balcone.

For the upcoming CX season, I have seven or eight wheels to glue and in that case a can would have maybe been a good idea (but on the other hand, there might be quite a bit of time between the need for Chicane and Limus...).

Eleven21
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:08 pm

by Eleven21

Hoping someone can help?

I was in the process of gluing up a tub and carbon tubular rim. I’d put two layers of conti carbon tubular glue onto the rim with around 20 hours between coats, and one on the veloflex vlaanderen tubular. Both the tubular tyre and carbon rim were brand new without any glue on either.

It’s been almost three weeks since I’d put the second layer of glue on to the rim and I’m now not sure what to do (family stuff happened otherwise I wouldn’t have left it). Should I put another fresh coat of glue on the rim and then mount the tub?

Thanks in advance

Geoff
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

That should be no problem. You can put-down a fresh coat on either of the basetape (my personal preference) or on the rim bed and affix the tire.

Eleven21
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:08 pm

by Eleven21

Geoff wrote:That should be no problem. You can put-down a fresh coat on either of the basetape (my personal preference) or on the rim bed and affix the tire.
Many thanks for the input.

Was a little worried I might have to remove the conti carbon glue and start all over again.

When applying to the tub forgive the really dumb question, but am I correct to brush fresh glue to the tub and then mount straight away (without allowing any drying time)? Will one layer of tubular glue be enough to Reactivate the two layers of glue that have already dried on to my Enve rim?

Geoff
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Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:25 am
Location: Canada

by Geoff

No, once the solvents in the glue flash-off, the glue will still work just fine (obviously, over a period of years, the glue will eventually degrade, but certainly not in a few months). I just glued-up a set of Dugast Paris-Roubaix seta 27s on a pair of Bontrager Aeolus that were sitting for some weeks (baseball playoff season...) myself and they are just fine.

Yes. I would recommend installing the tire as soon as you lay-down a fresh layer. The purpose of that last layer is not to 'reactivate' the glue (it is a contact cement, so the pressure of the tire being inflated will do that itself), but rather to allow the tire to 'slide' a bit on the rim bed so that you can more easily adjust the position of the tire to centre it on the rim more accurately (it is highly likely that you will need to make minor adjustments to get the tire straight on the rim. When you do that, make sure that you are looking at the tread and not the basetape, which can be crooked, too, especially on hand-made tires).

Good luck!

Eleven21
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:08 pm

by Eleven21

That’s great - I really appreciate you taking the time to share the knowledge. Thank you.

jlok
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

RyanH wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:10 pm
It's too late but one of the reasons to use Vittoria or Veloflex is that you don't need to Pre stretch. Also, I do all my gluing steps in the span of 30 minutes, not over several days. A brand new rim add maybe an hour.

Brand new rims:

Scuff with sand paper
Clean with alcohol
Thin layer of glue on rim, let cure for 15 minutes.
A layer of glue on tires (cure for 10 min)
Another thing layer of glue on rim (sometimes I skip this step)
Apply tire


I don't remove old glue for used rims and mostly just one layer on each, sit for 10 minutes and mount. It becomes a lot less like a chore when you cut it down to this few steps.

With a Conti tire just stretch the life out of it as you go around the rim. Good luck.
I have followed your instructions (but I "scrubbed" the rim with isopropyl soaked paper towel until no more dark stains, plus wetting the tire before mounting) with success. Thank you very much.

Just one thin Mastik One layer on each new rim and tire. Learned to push the glue with a paint brush along the rim rather than dragging it. That way the glue is even and thin. Used only one tube of 30mL Mastik One for both of the Bora One 35 DB and Corsa Control G2.0 25/28.

Job done in a bit more than an hour. Inflated them to indicated max pressure and passed thumb test overnight. Cleanest and fastest job of my only few attempts. Very happy.
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

by Weenie


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