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Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:25 pm
by strobbekoen
I had a couple of flats fixed with the caffelatex stuff, worked nicely.
The first flat was on a tub without any caffelatex in. i put it in after getting home, inflated it, spun the wheel in the air for a bit and saw the stuff shooting out, after 5 spins or so it was fixed.
The second was with the caffelatex in the tub, didnt even notice it until i got home and saw the latex squirts on the sidewalls.
It definitely can be a lifesaver.

Re:

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:57 pm
by Andy284
Zenkai wrote:
fdegrove wrote:In general deflating the tyre is not recommended once the tyre has been treated either preemptively or for a repair as the inner walls will collapse and tend to bond to each other. This is why I mentioned that care should be taken when reinflating. Go slow here and chances are you'll do just fine.

So, a partial deflate (say to 50-60psi) would probably be OK then, right? That would be high enough to prevent tire collapse, and low enough to prevent high-altitude explosion.



Sounds good to me.
1 atmosphere pressure is about 15psi; removing that by going from sea level to outer space would effectively add 15psi to the inside of your tyre casing. The pressure at commercial jet altitude is only 10psi less than sea level. So 60psi in the tyre becomes 70psi. IME Air companies are slowly wising up to this in their bike packing advice. But the check-in desk staff don't get it :noidea: so best to say "yes I have let some air out of the tyres" and avoid the hassle.
Keep them inflated to protect the rim and avoid pinch damage to the tube -and your tube sticking to itself if you have sealant in it...

Re:

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:57 pm
by Weenie

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:38 am
by fdegrove
Hi,

Tubes6al4v wrote:A new trend in tubeless MTB tires is to use CaffeLatex, a foaming latex based sealant. There are two major advantages to it:

- No amonia to dry out your rubber
- It foams to fill the entire cavity, being more effective at sealing flats NOT on the tread (i.e. sidewall and underside)

They make an on-road inflater as well: http://www.effettomariposa.com/prodotti ... l#espresso

The US distro is http://www.cantitoeroad.com/

I am going to order some for testing, but don't have a flat tubie right now.


The guy behind effettomariposa used to work for Vittoria.
Caffelatex is the same stuff that Pittstop is made of. It just does NOT work for me.
In fact I feel the whole thing is a major PITA as it sometimes seems to repair the puncture until it faces some "overpressure" situation and blows the old puncture again.
May be fine for MTB but I won't use it on a race bike.
I must add that I mainly run tubulars with latex inner tubes, butyl inners are easier for latex emulsions to work with.

I do have good results with Tufo Sealant but then I only use it when a) I'm pretty sure it will get the job done and b) I intend to ride that tubular 'till it's worn.
There's no point in repairing a tub with Tufo just to have it laying about deflated afterwards; it'll glue the inner tube together and you'll tear it apart if not careful next time you reinflate the tyre...

Ciao, ;)

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:53 pm
by Tubes6al4v
FDEGrove, what pressure were you running? It'd definitely be a bummer if it didn't work at normal road pressures. Oh, and thanks for the background!

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:54 am
by fdegrove
Hi,

I'm using 7,5 bar up front and 8 to 8,2 at the rear. I weigh about 70 kg, the bike 6,3 kg so no heavy weights. 8)

As said, I think these foamy emulsions are probably fine for MTB like tyre pressures but for a race bike there's just not of sealant going to the puncture area to actually seal it well enough to last.

Ciao, ;)

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:42 am
by strobbekoen
I ran mine at 120psi after sealing and it worked fine.

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:33 pm
by effettomariposa
fdegrove wrote:Hi,The guy behind effettomariposa used to work for Vittoria.
Caffelatex is the same stuff that Pittstop is made of. (..)
Hello fdegrove, one right and one wrong: yes, I used to work for Vittoria/Geax, no, Caffélatex is different than PitStop. I'd be happy to answer any further question :thumbup:

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:40 pm
by Tubes6al4v
Can you elaborate on whether coffee latex world well at varying pressures?

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:09 pm
by raspaa
wow. old thread.

I got my first tubular puncture last week. Had Stan's in the tire for precautionary purpose. The gash was 3-4mm long and although I lost some air and the sealant was all over the bike, the tire is sealed and does withhold pressure at 120 psi.

Now, I have not ridden the tire since it is sealed, so I don't know how well it sealed it or if it will leak once I put pressure on it... but right now it seems just fine.

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:10 am
by fdegrove
Hi,

effettomariposa wrote:
fdegrove wrote:Hi,The guy behind effettomariposa used to work for Vittoria.
Caffelatex is the same stuff that Pittstop is made of. (..)
Hello fdegrove, one right and one wrong: yes, I used to work for Vittoria/Geax, no, Caffélatex is different than PitStop. I'd be happy to answer any further question :thumbup:


By all means, please do.
Apologisies for jumping the gun on your product BTW.
My lack of success with Pittstop made me point the finger at the foamy nature of the emulsion as explained in previous posts.

Either way, I'm sure an in depth explanation of the various design decisions are most welcome as would be an estimated success rate with this product.

TIA, ;)

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:41 am
by xg43x
Stan's has impressed me.

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:14 pm
by effettomariposa
fdegrove wrote:Hi, By all means, please do.
Apologisies for jumping the gun on your product BTW.
My lack of success with Pittstop made me point the finger at the foamy nature of the emulsion as explained in previous posts.
Either way, I'm sure an in depth explanation of the various design decisions are most welcome as would be an estimated success rate with this product.
TIA, ;)
No problem at all, fedgrove!
The main deal about Caffélatex is that its only latex content is actually in the name.... as its "synthetic latex" formula contains polymers that behave similarly to natural latex, but are not latexes. The foaming effect is an intrinsic property of one of the polymers we use in the blend. The foam is just a way to carry and spread the sealant inside the tyre cavity and doesn't reinforce nor weaken the repairing effect: the sealant just happens to be there also when a puncture occurs on the sidewall, which is not necessarily the case with liquid sealants. We just made a video showing that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vfeLBqnc44

Then, while natural latex requires ammonia to be stabilized, Caffélatex doesn't, making it a safe choice for any tyre, or rim or tube... including very sensitive latex tubes inside tubulars. Caffélatex has been endorsed by Dugast as the only sealant currently compatible with their tubulars (that will soon be published on their website, I guess), which is proof of that.
Beside that, Caffélatex has a very good usage record with road tubeless, with good performance also at high pressure.
And then, some heads-up: we're going to launch at Interbike this year an additional product that will furtherly extend Caffélatex maximum sealable puncture way beyond what is currently possible for sealants. More on that soon!

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:33 pm
by NealH
So "effettomariposa", a couple elementary questions for you:

1. Do you normally recommend pre-filling the tubular tires with Caffelatex or, just carrying the on-road pressurized bottle?

2. If pre-filled, does this affect the ride to any degree, or the weight (again, to any significant degree)?

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:58 pm
by MortenB
I use 30ml of Stans in my tubulars (preventive) and I've had two punctures on the same rear so far. First one after around 500 km, and the last one recently after 1200 km. The last one was quite a big hole and it took a little while before the Stan stuff sealed the leak, but it's sealed it. I run 120psi without any problems...

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:10 am
by fdegrove
Hi,

rnhood wrote:So "effettomariposa", a couple elementary questions for you:

1. Do you normally recommend pre-filling the tubular tires with Caffelatex or, just carrying the on-road pressurized bottle?

2. If pre-filled, does this affect the ride to any degree, or the weight (again, to any significant degree)?


I'm aware you're addressing your questions to the manufacturer but the answers seem too obvious to bother a busy man:

1. Up to you to decide.

2. Since you're adding something it will add it's weight which will, to some extend, have an effect. Even if the product is well spread across the entire tyre thanks to it's foamy nature, it's still there.

Ciao, ;)

Re: The tubular sealant thread.

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:10 am
by Weenie