Deep vs very deep

[TobinHatesYou]

Rim behaviour in windy conditions has very little to do with rim depth. I've ridden 80s that are extremely stable and on the other hand box section wheels that pull you all over the road.

I feel like I'm being gaslit sometimes when I read forums lol. Hopefully less experienced people don't actually believe stuff like this.

I could definitely see a box-section rim experiencing more sideforces than an 80mm rim at up to 5deg yaw, especially if the box-section rim is expectedly narrow and the 80mm rim is wider than the tire.

[Lina]

Rim behaviour in windy conditions has very little to do with rim depth. I've ridden 80s that are extremely stable and on the other hand box section wheels that pull you all over the road.

I feel like I'm being gaslit sometimes when I read forums lol. Hopefully less experienced people don't actually believe stuff like this.

Rim behaviour in windy conditions has very little to do with rim depth. I've ridden 80s that are extremely stable and on the other hand box section wheels that pull you all over the road.

I feel like I'm being gaslit sometimes when I read forums lol. Hopefully less experienced people don't actually believe stuff like this.

Seriously. If rim depth were not a factor in handling, everyone would be riding disc wheels in the flat. I understand that deep rims can be very stable and shallow can be unwieldy, but that's almost always the exception and not the norm.

Deep wheels being unstable at winds comes from 10 years ago when the rim shapes were nothing like they're today. I live in a very windy place, think Kona and then some, and I don't own anything below 55 mm. Why did I get rid of my box sections? Because they were worse in winds than the 55s. The rim shape matters more than the rim heights for stability, of course when a tall rim is unstable it's worse than a shallow rim being unstable. While you can still ride an unstable shallow rim riding an unstable tall rim can be really difficult.

And why isn't everyone on deep wheels then? Well it's because your posts are the general attitude towards deep wheels. People still remember the first deep wheels that came out and some of those were outright scary at any wind, but that's not the current situation. Also weight weenieism plays a part in it, people care more about a few grams they can measure on a scale than they do about aero performance they can't measure themselves. It's the same with aero frames. People rate few hundred grams in a 60 - 90 kg system more than they do the frame aero.

[spartacus]

And why isn't everyone on deep wheels then? Well it's because your posts are the general attitude towards deep wheels.

No it's actually because the deep wheels are borderline/actually dangerous on high speed descents. Go ahead and descend GMR behind a good bike handler on a windy day with your stupid 80mm wheels and tell us about it, if you're even alive afterwards.

[ArtifactsInMotion]

And why isn't everyone on deep wheels then? Well it's because your posts are the general attitude towards deep wheels.

No it's actually because the deep wheels are borderline/actually dangerous on high speed descents. Go ahead and descend GMR behind a good bike handler on a windy day with your stupid 80mm wheels and tell us about it, if you're even alive afterwards.

Let's keep it civil folks. No need to get nasty towards each other. This all goes back to the important context of the rider. Would I recommend a novice rider to descend on 80mm wheels? Absolutely not. They're going to experience tugs and pushes that could upset their line or steering input and then you have an accident. Could someone like WvA or SafaBrian do it? Definitely, and probably go faster because they have the skill and experience. Descents shouldn't even be in question because OP said they're in flat terrain with maybe some hills. Let's also consider any hypothetical sitations with wheels of the same profile (e.g. Enve 5.6s vs 6.7s, or Bontrager RSL 62s vs 75s)

So (as previously stated), if OP can handle the potential for more crosswind activity with a deeper section and feel confident, deeper is the way to go for their situation and riding location.

[Juanmoretime]

I have 38mm on my Blue AC1 and my main road bike is a Litespeed T3 disc. When I built it 3 years ago I went with 38's and Force hydro mechanical. After about 4 months I wanted something deeper so I bought a set of 55mm deep wheels and when I received them put them on. The 38's are a fair bit lighter but they have not been on the bike since I r3eceived the 55mm wheels. The ride and speed just agrees with me. Both wheels are Farsports 25mm wide wheels no spoke hole rims and latex tubes with Continental GP5000S 25mm tires.. I also bought ceramic bearings for both wheel sets and the stock bearings are just so smooth they sit there for when I wear them out. The 38's have Bitex hubs and the 55's Novatec and Sapim CX-Ray spokes and nippes.

[maxim809]

Go ahead and descend GMR behind a good bike handler on a windy day with your stupid 80mm wheels and tell us about it, if you're even alive afterwards.

yo chill

[TobinHatesYou]

I ride my 5.6s nearly exclusively. They aren’t 80mm, but their 54/63mm depth is not significantly more scary than 20mm wide external box sections rims while descending the top of Mt. Hamilton or down 92 from 35/Skyline.

The only two times I’ve truly been terrified by windy conditions, the sustained winds were in the 35mph range with gusts to 50mph. One was the day of a circuit race, people got blown off the road regardless of wheel depth. I had equipped my 202s, but mercifully the promoter decided to cancel my starting wave. The other was just a ride down from my hill to an auto repair shop to pick up my car. It didn’t help that I was in normal clothes.

[Lina]

And why isn't everyone on deep wheels then? Well it's because your posts are the general attitude towards deep wheels.

No it's actually because the deep wheels are borderline/actually dangerous on high speed descents. Go ahead and descend GMR behind a good bike handler on a windy day with your stupid 80mm wheels and tell us about it, if you're even alive afterwards.

Thanks for literally proving my point. Also in my first post I did say you want the deepest wheels you can comfortably ride. So no I wouldn't be pushing 80s to someone on their first ride. My 55s are my everyday wheels, and I've done plenty of descending on them and they aren't scary. I've also gone down mountains with 80s and they haven't been an issue. As I said in my previous post, rim profiles have come along a lot in the last 10 years and what was the case then isn't the same anymore.

[spartacus]

Go ahead and descend GMR behind a good bike handler on a windy day with your stupid 80mm wheels and tell us about it, if you're even alive afterwards.

yo chill

sorry, my bad, I shouldn't have called his wheels stupid. They are innocent (probably)

[maxim809]

sorry, my bad, I shouldn't have called his wheels stupid. They are innocent (probably)

can you just talk to people like they were sitting in front of you?

i actually agree with some of the points you're trying to touch on, but it serves no purpose when no one can see past your tone

[LouisN]

I have a 80 mm X 25 mm front wheel for the TT bike. I tried it with my road bike twice.
Now I know in any conditions, if I have another option available at home, I won't ride such a deep rim in front. Steering is awful in tight curves, or L/R turn séquence, any wind burst is a risk of getting blown in the ditch (or road), etc...
I'm 72 kg, 1,77 m BTW.
Louis

[Cycloholic]

Thanks all for the help. Im thinking to go for zipp 454 nsw or the 404 firecrest. Its the double the price for the nsw but it sounds really interesting the disengaging thing on the hub. Any other reccomendations maybe?!! Swiss side, dt swiss?!

[TobinHatesYou]

Thanks all for the help. Im thinking to go for zipp 454 nsw or the 404 firecrest. Its the double the price for the nsw but it sounds really interesting the disengaging thing on the hub. Any other reccomendations maybe?!! Swiss side, dt swiss?!

The Cognition hub isn’t anything special. I have the 1.0 version on my 202 NSWs and it’s absolutely horrendous to break down / service. The 2.0 is a bit easier, but comes with a dumbed down design. It’s insanely finicky with lubrication. Phil Wood’s Tenacious Oil is too heavy and caused delayed engagement in freezing temperatures. They recommend only Cognition Oil or Phil Wood Bio Lube.

[ABogle]

Rim behaviour in windy conditions has very little to do with rim depth. I've ridden 80s that are extremely stable and on the other hand box section wheels that pull you all over the road.

I feel like I'm being gaslit sometimes when I read forums lol. Hopefully less experienced people don't actually believe stuff like this.

Lol, every video or topic on rim depth and there is someone saying "I weigh 400g and I ride a disc wheel front and rear all year round... it can be a bit sketchy in tornadoes but its manageable"

But seriously I have had a really dodgy set of shallow wheels. And I've found shorter cockpits (stem + handlebar reach + how the hood is mounted) can make most wheelsets feel more sketchy. For me a short reach bar and a 100mm step with the bar rotated and hoods mounted to reduce by as much as possible results in a more sketchy bike with strong gusts even with shallow alloy rims.

[Cycloholic]

Was looking for 404 firecrest, but wtf 75 psi?!!