Bora WTO vs Far Sports?!

[CyclingGiraffe]

Awesome – pretty close to pulling the trigger on Campy's myself. They just look sooooo good. Let me know how you like them compared to your other FS wheels!

Not tried them yet, waiting on tyres.

First impressions are of a quality product as you would expect. The wheel bags, separate bag for spares etc gives you a positive feeling about the contents and the rims in particular look like very good quality manufacturing. The hubs I wouldn’t put above say Carbon Ti which are really my only comparator for high end hubs but they’re definitely a cut above Novatec!

But goodness they are heavy, 1560g with Shimano freehub. Also the freehub body looks like steel?

Very keen to get them up and running and see how they ride

Is the freehub body white or more bronze/metallic colored? I believe the white version (ceramic oxide coating?) is aluminum, whereas the bronze/metallic version is steel. There is a fairly significant weight difference between the two (by hand; unfortunately, I didn't actually weigh the two freehubs before I got them reinstalled). They seem to be interchangeable, if you want to move to the lighter version.

[PoorCyclist]

Feder and Kaze share the same latest brake track. You won't get the old version brake track from Farsports outside China, as they have already stopped producing them (classic line is different). Ventoux C and S mk2 series use Kaze rims while S evo mk2 series use Feder rims.

Yes I meant the lab conditions, while in the reality it's hard to brake bora smoked.

Thanks, do you know anything about the rims for the UFO series? Do they have the newest brake track, the height profile doesn't match Kaze or Feder.

[alanyu]

Feder and Kaze share the same latest brake track. You won't get the old version brake track from Farsports outside China, as they have already stopped producing them (classic line is different). Ventoux C and S mk2 series use Kaze rims while S evo mk2 series use Feder rims.

Yes I meant the lab conditions, while in the reality it's hard to brake bora smoked.

Thanks, do you know anything about the rims for the UFO series? Do they have the newest brake track, the height profile doesn't match Kaze or Feder.

IIRC, UFO is an old series which has the old brake track as the first generation of C series.

There is a mistake in my previous post. I shouldn't call it as C series mk2. The latest Ventoux C series in China is actually the third generation, which uses Kaze rims. There have been three generations of C series (normal spokes), and two generations of S series (carbon spoke)

[Nixster]

Awesome – pretty close to pulling the trigger on Campy's myself. They just look sooooo good. Let me know how you like them compared to your other FS wheels!

Not tried them yet, waiting on tyres.

First impressions are of a quality product as you would expect. The wheel bags, separate bag for spares etc gives you a positive feeling about the contents and the rims in particular look like very good quality manufacturing. The hubs I wouldn’t put above say Carbon Ti which are really my only comparator for high end hubs but they’re definitely a cut above Novatec!

But goodness they are heavy, 1560g with Shimano freehub. Also the freehub body looks like steel?

Very keen to get them up and running and see how they ride

Is the freehub body white or more bronze/metallic colored? I believe the white version (ceramic oxide coating?) is aluminum, whereas the bronze/metallic version is steel. There is a fairly significant weight difference between the two (by hand; unfortunately, I didn't actually weigh the two freehubs before I got them reinstalled). They seem to be interchangeable, if you want to move to the lighter version.

Not white and from looking at images on web I definitely have the steel one at 50+g heavier! Not what I was expecting and am going to call Chicken Cycles tomorrow to find out why. They were a great price but I want the weight Campagnolo intended them to be

[PoorCyclist]

I think my WTO 45 rim brake weighted 1520g with the white freehub.

[Nixster]

Are yours disc? I think the disc version are 1520g typically but the rim version is usually under 1500g even with Shimano freehub.

Edit: ignore me I didn’t read your post properly!

[PoorCyclist]

The claim weight 1496g? is using campy freehub and no grease I believe.

[Nixster]

I thought 1490g but who knows how much grease they’re allowing for

[Nixster]

Supplier is going to swap out the freehub for the alloy version. We’ll see what the weight is after that.

[jlok]

Unbelievably that they have installed the steel freehub at the beginning.

[Nixster]

Unbelievably that they have installed the steel freehub at the beginning.

There’s some context here - the wheels are ex-display so they have been out of the box but never ridden. I suspect at some point the freehub was swapped out, for what reasons I can only speculate. I definitely don’t think they left the factory that way.

Whatever, they are doing the right thing, for which I applaud them.

[jlok]

Ic. That makes sense.

[Nixster]

Okay, got the wheels back with the correct freehub.
Weight is now 1518g the pair, better but still would’ve been nice to get under 1500g.

Veloflex TLR Race installed with CO2 to seat and Stans sealant.

Round the block in jeans and trainers ride suggests braking is good if noisy! More impressions to come after a longer ride.

[Nixster]

Okay, 55km this morning and some more thoughts on the wheels and a comparison with the Far Sports wheels they are replacing as principal wheelset. Clearly not a long term review!

Short version: very good solid premium wheels, buy them and you won’t be disappointed.

Long version:
Comparing with 30mm tubular Far Sports rims on Carbon Ti hubs, 20 /24 C X-ray spokes. 28mm Vittoria Corsa Control tubs which measure around 27mm. Bora 45 WTO have Veloflex Corsa race 25mm TLR tyres run tubeless. So this isn’t an apples/apples comparison.

Braking: the stand out difference. Boras and Campag red pads make a great system with progressive easily modulated braking. I had a little rain and the braking was still good but I wouldn’t say that’s enough to conclude too much about wet weather performance. The Far Sports basalt brake tracks and Swiss stop black Prince have plenty of power but can be a bit grabby. Don’t know what the more recent FS brake treatment does for that but the Bora rims are very even where I can get some pulsing with the FS front rim.

Stiffness: Boras are as expected slightly laterally stiffer and the frame is now the more flexible part of the system. I could just about elicit some brake rub with the pads set pretty close which I can’t with the FS but my conclusion is that the frame is flexing more than the wheels now. But the FS wheels are stiff enough.

Aero: a benefit from the Boras I could neither justify or quantify given my power output but it is there as you would expect from the deeper rims and better matched tyres.

Cross winds: no issue with 25-30kph cross winds as you would expect.

Comfort: comes from tyres. In my opinion people who claim to be able to detect vertical compliance differences in wheels are delusional. However, there are some differences in ride quality.

Feel: so this is obviously highly subjective but here’s an anecdote. There’s a shortish steep downhill section of ‘road’ on this route that wouldn’t be out of place in Paris Roubaix. Always makes me think about replacement costs of tyres and rims when I ride it! FS rims with fatter tyres should be better on this but they are not. Boras feel super solid, hold the line better and generally inspired more confidence. I wasn’t expecting that and was pleasantly surprised.

Snappiness/ reactivity/ acceleration: I can’t tell a difference. There’s about 150g between the two systems, all in the rims, and I can’t tell the difference in such a small amount of rotational inertia. In fact the pure rim weight is likely in the region of 200g per rim different, compensated by the lighter tyres. If I was comparing to my 50mm FS rims it would be even closer and impossible for me to detect.

‘They roll well’: give me a break. They’re round aren’t they? The Bora bearings are fine, initially not as smooth as the Carbon Ti NTN bearings but they will no doubt wear in. But I can’t tell when riding. The freehub is not too noisy whereas the CTi freehub is raucous and good for warning pedestrians of your approach. And scaring small children and animals.

Other stuff: I suspect that the Boras are torsionally stiffer rims, which together with the weight makes for a well damped, solid feeling wheel with good directional control. I also suspect Campagnolo could drop 30-50g per rim and maintain that, which is my only beef with them. And frankly that’s felt much more looking at the scale than when riding on the road. If you want cutting edge, ‘fall apart after crossing the finish line in first place’ race wheels then look elsewhere. If you want a solid feeling, confidence inspiring premium wheel I suspect the Boras are it. But if you want best value for money above all I think Far Sports have a lot to offer still.

[jlok]

vertical compliance differences in wheels

You can. Just try the Fulcrum Racing Zero Carbon DB. The aluminum spokes is making the vertical compliance worse. My bike jumped around more than other wheels when descending the same rough road with same set of tires. Had to lower the pressure by 5-10 psi than desired.

I wish the WTO comes with tubular variant to save some rim weight. I got the Ultra 60. Love it, but not when following vans down hill due to the turbulence affecting the front wheel too much.