Educate me on carbon rim brakes and I need a wheelset recommendation

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Treptay
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:23 am

by Treptay

Hello there, I don't really post that often, I mostly read the forum.
Quick background info:
I usually weigh 62-67kg , ride about 5000km a year, want to increase that in 2022 to at least 7000km. I live in Austria, but in the flatter part - so apart from a few bigger descents (more than 300 meters of descending), there are mostly smaller hills around - biggest descend I usually ride is about 400 meters of elevation decrease over about 4.5km). I do plan to ride Stelvio and some other big climbs + descents in the near future - about 2-3 alpine descents per year.
My average speed in the flat is about 25-30 km/h, and when descending I rarely go above 50-60 km/h (I do not like high speeds). I do brake kinda often, and mostly descend 5 minutes at a time and then take a 1 minute break (since I mostly ride with my girlfriend, which is slower on descents, so I wait for her to not get seperated a lot in case she gets a mechanical problem).
Current bike is an Scott Speedster SE - Aluminium rim brake frame, endurance geometry with Ultegra R8000 (current weight about 9kg with pedals and cages) - best I could afford 3 years ago when I got more serious with road cycling. (I do not plan to do any races)
This will probably remain my main road bike for at least the next few years (I have a disc brake (all)road bike with 38mm tires for the winter and some light gravel).
The bike still has the stock aluminium wheelset on, which are Syncros branded, the weight is about 1950g.
These wheels will eventually be repurposed for my commuter/city bike.

As you can guess, I am looking for a wheelset upgrade for this bike, which may be transfered to a new bike down the road - if my next road bike is going to be rim brake.
I was thinking about saving some weight and getting a mid section (30-40mm deeps) which weights around 1500g (preferably <1500g) - which would get me a weight saving of about 400-500 grams. The budget is about 600-800 euros/dollars (most I would spend for such an upgrade right now), and I would ride them with 28mm wide tires (clinchers, maybe tubeless if the wheels support it). The wheels/hubs should be easy to maintain, and the wheels should have good build quality. (silent freehub prefered, but not necessary)

As far as I can see, there aren't that many aluminium wheels that fulfill this role (I saw Tune TSR35), there aren't really any carbon wheels with aluminium brake surface that are that light (except maybe for dura ace, which would be slightly out of budget, but for the 24mm deep version), so I looked into full carbon wheels.
Farsports has wheelsets that fit the specs - Kaze with DT350 hubs. (I guess there are other carbon wheels that fit the criteria).

Anyways, I have no expirience with carbon rim brakes. After researching the topic, it seems that they would mostly be fine for my use case (small descends, good weather) except for the few alpine descents that I plan to ride.
I understand that the wheels can theoretically catastrophically fail if the braking surface gets too hot, but how likely is that to happen, considering my use case and considering that I brake often?
How likely is that to happen anyways in real use, or is it just a thing of the past with cheap carbon rims from 10 years ago?
Did I overthink this upgrade, should I stick with aluminium wheels and loosen my criteria about the weight and get a low profile aluminium wheelset?

I am looking for advice what to buy, if carbon brake tracks are safe, and if you have a wheelset recommendation, please share it. (I tried to share all relevant information in the post)
Thanks!

by Weenie


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AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

I have a set of the Farsports "classic" rims in 50mm with the 350S hubs. They have been fantastic and have 10,000+ miles on them now. They are still a great budget option at Farsports. The Kaze rims look good too.

You do have to adjust your perception of braking. After researching it, I used Campagnolo red pads and they have been a great match with the Farsports rims. If you ever get caught in the rain, braking will be very diminished especially when the rims are new. After the rims have worn in, braking gets better in my experience.

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mogwaiboi
Posts: 211
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:09 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

by mogwaiboi

I recenly got a set of the Farsports Kaze DT350 rim brake and they have been great so far. I'm using Swissstop Black Prince pads and the dry braking is superb. I'm still getting used to them as they have more of a biting point than alu wheels, so it's easier to lock up the back wheel. If you are the type of descender who drags the brakes all the way down a descent (which I am somewhat) I would possibly be hesitant in an alpine situation. Luckily I don't live in an alpine area so I don't have any long descents to worry about. I'd probably use my other bike with alu wheels in that situation.

I got caught in the rain and the braking was diminished somewhat, but you just need to try and pulse the brakes to clear the brake track of water if you know a descent is coming up.
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Treptay
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:23 am

by Treptay

AJS914 wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:28 am
I have a set of the Farsports "classic" rims in 50mm with the 350S hubs. They have been fantastic and have 10,000+ miles on them now. They are still a great budget option at Farsports. The Kaze rims look good too.

You do have to adjust your perception of braking. After researching it, I used Campagnolo red pads and they have been a great match with the Farsports rims. If you ever get caught in the rain, braking will be very diminished especially when the rims are new. After the rims have worn in, braking gets better in my experience.
How is the braking surface holding up after 10000 miles? I am not familiar in how the carbon brake surface wears down with time.

Treptay
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:23 am

by Treptay

mogwaiboi wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:58 am
I recenly got a set of the Farsports Kaze DT350 rim brake and they have been great so far. I'm using Swissstop Black Prince pads and the dry braking is superb. I'm still getting used to them as they have more of a biting point than alu wheels, so it's easier to lock up the back wheel. If you are the type of descender who drags the brakes all the way down a descent (which I am somewhat) I would possibly be hesitant in an alpine situation. Luckily I don't live in an alpine area so I don't have any long descents to worry about. I'd probably use my other bike with alu wheels in that situation.

I got caught in the rain and the braking was diminished somewhat, but you just need to try and pulse the brakes to clear the brake track of water if you know a descent is coming up.
How long do the brake pads last on the Kaze rims? The braking surface looks like it would eat trough a set of pads really fast.

petromyzon
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm

by petromyzon

I've got a set of Light Bicycle carbon clinchers but I wouldn't ride them down the Stelvio because I ride large descents infrequently and I'm not confident.

You are quite light and aware of the risks so should be fine but you have to ask yourself if a wheelset with worse braking and potential risk of failure is truly an upgrade? Added to which you want to run 28mm tyres which may not give the most efficient profile. If you lived somewhere pan flat with great surfaces then I would say get the Kaze 100%. However you may be better served by a Kinlin alloy rim build on a hub to suit your budget, or looking at premium factory-built alloy sets second hand. The Shimano c24s are too narrow for my liking.

I am not sure that I would see the new wheels as an investment in the future as new mid-range rim brake bikes will be virtually non-existent within a few years.

basilic
Posts: 1028
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:05 am
Location: Geneva, Switzerland

by basilic

Why not a set of light aluminum wheels, something like Fulcrum racing 3, about 1450g, and below your budget.
Great wheels, excellent braking.

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Lelandjt
Posts: 836
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:10 am

by Lelandjt

Only minimally aero but my "budget, durable, switchback descent" wheels are DT 411 rims on 350 hubs with 24/28 CX-Rays at like 1350g, $800. My 1280g carbon aero wheels are "faster" but these are the wheels I take when going to Europe to ride unfamiliar roads in the mountains as the mechanic for a tour group. I can't be having mechanical problems during those trips and I like to bomb the descents and push it in the turns.

MaxPower
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:30 pm

by MaxPower

Treptay wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:30 pm
mogwaiboi wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:58 am
I recenly got a set of the Farsports Kaze DT350 rim brake and they have been great so far. I'm using Swissstop Black Prince pads and the dry braking is superb. I'm still getting used to them as they have more of a biting point than alu wheels, so it's easier to lock up the back wheel. If you are the type of descender who drags the brakes all the way down a descent (which I am somewhat) I would possibly be hesitant in an alpine situation. Luckily I don't live in an alpine area so I don't have any long descents to worry about. I'd probably use my other bike with alu wheels in that situation.

I got caught in the rain and the braking was diminished somewhat, but you just need to try and pulse the brakes to clear the brake track of water if you know a descent is coming up.
How long do the brake pads last on the Kaze rims? The braking surface looks like it would eat trough a set of pads really fast.
Reasonable long. Have a similar wheelset with same brake pads. Depends a lot how much and how you brake though b-D

Treptay
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:23 am

by Treptay

petromyzon wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:54 pm
I've got a set of Light Bicycle carbon clinchers but I wouldn't ride them down the Stelvio because I ride large descents infrequently and I'm not confident.

You are quite light and aware of the risks so should be fine but you have to ask yourself if a wheelset with worse braking and potential risk of failure is truly an upgrade? Added to which you want to run 28mm tyres which may not give the most efficient profile. If you lived somewhere pan flat with great surfaces then I would say get the Kaze 100%. However you may be better served by a Kinlin alloy rim build on a hub to suit your budget, or looking at premium factory-built alloy sets second hand. The Shimano c24s are too narrow for my liking.

I am not sure that I would see the new wheels as an investment in the future as new mid-range rim brake bikes will be virtually non-existent within a few years.
The dura ace ones are too narrow for some reason, 15mm internal width is just odd.
Sigh, I am sad that mid range rim brakes are not that popular anymore since I like them a lot.
basilic wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:40 pm
Why not a set of light aluminum wheels, something like Fulcrum racing 3, about 1450g, and below your budget.
Great wheels, excellent braking.
I was originally going for a sub 1500g wheelset, and the Fulcrum racing 3 are advertised as 1560g (add a few extra grams for rim tape and they are certainly going to be above 1600g). Yeah, I was wondering if the carbon rim brakes would be an ok choice, but as it seems, I am going to stick to aluminium wheels.

by Weenie


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AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

Treptay wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:29 pm
How is the braking surface holding up after 10000 miles? I am not familiar in how the carbon brake surface wears down with time.
The brake tracks look like they are still new. They don't really wear with the right pads.

The only time they feel like they would wear is when you get caught in the rain and you get road silt between the pads and rim. It sounds like it is sanding them down. In all my riding with them I've only been caught in the rain once.

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