Rim brake carbon 50mm-60mm STIFF wheelset?

[RedRacer]

Blackinc, Princeton, Hunt, Knight

The Black Inc Sixty looks interesting due to the unusual 24 spoke F/R build but they have internal nipples like the Enve (a negative for me) and I can't find any aero data or legitimate reviews.

Princeton is too ugly. Hunt and Knight look fine but are they ~$1000 less than the big brands due less tech and inferior materials/construction or because they are sold direct B2C?

I wonder how much stiffer my Roval CLX50s would be if rebuilt with spokes that are heavier than the DT Swiss Aerolite T-heads ?

[tomato]

Blackinc, Princeton, Hunt, Knight

The Black Inc Sixty looks interesting due to the unusual 24 spoke F/R build but they have internal nipples like the Enve ...

I broke my first spoke in 30+ years this summer, and it was on a set of wheels that has internal nipples. It's no harder to replace the spoke -- the biggest obstacle is getting a replacement.

[DHG01]

Have you considered tubulars?
I know some fear then, but it's really not an issue - and will reduce weight considerably.

I find SES 4.5 very stiff on R45s; as said, tubular version is ~1320 grams.
As someone mentioned - DA are very stiff also (and wide). I ride C40, but at nearly 1.4 kg, a bit heavy. C60 would be even more so.
Bora s are known to be very stiff (rode them in the past); Ultras, at 1215 grams, are difficult to improve. They are not as wide as you might want.

[RedRacer]

Have you considered tubulars?
I know some fear then, but it's really not an issue - and will reduce weight considerably.

The weight saving from tubulars is appealing but I am stuck on clinchers with tubes and rim brakes. A seemingly rare combo these days!

At this point the Enve SES 5.6 is in the lead but which hubs will product the stiffest build?

[DHG01]

Have you considered tubulars?
I know some fear then, but it's really not an issue - and will reduce weight considerably.

The weight saving from tubulars is appealing but I am stuck on clinchers with tubes and rim brakes. A seemingly rare combo these days!

At this point the Enve SES 5.6 is in the lead but which hubs will product the stiffest build?

I couldn't really compare across hubs. But, as said, 4.5s with CK feel very stiff; 5.6 with the same hub should be more so.

[BdaGhisallo]

Have you considered tubulars?
I know some fear then, but it's really not an issue - and will reduce weight considerably.

The weight saving from tubulars is appealing but I am stuck on clinchers with tubes and rim brakes. A seemingly rare combo these days!

At this point the Enve SES 5.6 is in the lead but which hubs will product the stiffest build?

I had a few pairs of Enve rims with various hubs - DT 240s and White T11 hubs - and I couldn't notice much difference in lateral stiffness at the rear between the two, despite the T11 hubs supposedly building into stiffer rear wheels because of their geometry.

What will make the biggest difference in lateral stiffness is the spoke you use. If you want lateral stiffness, go for thicker spokes. Stay away from cx-ray or aerolite spokes and go for a chunky spoke like Sapim Race. You won't add much in weight but you will notice a huge difference in lateral stiffness. The difference the thicker spokes make will dwarf the difference you get from different hubs.

[C36]

In absolute numbers (rear wheels measures and skipped 1800+ g wheels)
- corima mcc Dx 46: 60N/mm (1370g pair)
- mavic CCU : 57 N/mm (1250g tubulars)
- corima mcc WS+: 52 N/mm (1450g)
- corima 47 WS dx: 51 N/mm (1670g)
- hyper 50: 49 N/mm (1284g)
- campa shamal carbon 2021: 49 (1600g)
- Lw std 3: 48 (1130g tubulars)
- campa bora wto 45 disc: 47 (1550)

Some I read in the comments, that are behind the leading group
- dt arc 1100 50: 45 (1490)
- Enve ses 4.5 ar: 45 (1600g)
- cadex 42: 44N/mm (1370g)
- roval rapid Clx: 43N/mm (1410g)
I somehow need to dig some bontrager data


Far behind we have
- all the zipps... I have almost 15 years of data and the only I recall being above the 40 were the 2009 404... recent models oscillate between a noodle 33N/mm (previous 303 fc) and 40.5 (353 naw)
- visions latest 55sl is at 40.8... but the front is even flexier (which is not normal)


Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk

[DHG01]

Very interesting data. Thanks.
I am surprised to see the CCUs, which I also ride, above the Enve. Not sure if the non tubular configuration of the Enve is driving results or there a point beyond which additional stiffness is not as perceived. I would have never thought the CCU is significantly stiffer.

What is the source? Are more wheels available?

[C36]

Very interesting data. Thanks.
I am surprised to see the CCUs, which I also ride, above the Enve. Not sure if the non tubular configuration of the Enve is driving results or there a point beyond which additional stiffness is not as perceived. I would have never thought the CCU is significantly stiffer.

What is the source? Are more wheels available?

In terms of measurable performance there is a plateau at 60N/mm where you can’t see gains anymore (for road application).
Comparing the Enve / CCU, they play in totally different category, I have somewhere a 28 thick-spokes (at least cx-sprints) 55mm Enve rim and it just reach the 50N/mm.

[RedRacer]

In absolute numbers (rear wheels measures and skipped 1800+ g wheels)

- corima mcc WS+: 52 N/mm (1450g)

These look very interesting in terms of weight and stifness but the cost is high.

https://www.corima.com/road/mcc-47/cori ... ncher.html

Is there any aero data available?

[Mocs123]

Aren't the Winspace Hyper's supposed to be some of the stiffest wheels you can buy? They may have other flaws that knock them off your list, but I wouldn't discount them just because they are less expensive.

[C36]

Aren't the Winspace Hyper's supposed to be some of the stiffest wheels you can buy? They may have other flaws that knock them off your list, but I wouldn't discount them just because they are less expensive.

They are very stiff per today’s stds. With 50N/mm on the rear they are between 10 and 25% stiffer than most production wheels (40-45 range) but stiffer exist, look they examples I listed above.