ENVE SES 4.5 AR vs HED Vanquish RC Pro (And Other Higher-End Carbon Disc Wheels)

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smeady
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:44 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by smeady

Looking for some input and advice on a new wheelset. I am looking to pick up some new wheels, something with 45-60mm depth, tubeless, carbon, and disc brakes.

Right now I'm trying to decide between the ENVE SES 4.5 AR, and the HED Vanquish RC6 Pro. It's a plus if things are fast and light, but mainly I'm hoping for a wheel that's stable and responsive. I do have to deal with crossinds often so stability is very important.

I'm not super familiar with wheels so I'm hoping for some advice or recommendations (or entirely new suggestions)

Nickldn
Posts: 1863
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:35 am

by Nickldn

There's a pretty significant difference between 45mm and 60mm depth wheels.

45mm depth is pretty much general purpose, good for everything from commuting to fast group rides. More recent designs are very stable in all but the most windy conditions. ​I have 45mms on my everyday commuter.

60mm depth is much more focused on fast solo road riding and TTs. Less stable in high winds and gusty conditions and also a bit heavier. I have 55mms on my fast road bike, not so pleasant to ride on windy days, but generally faster on solo rides in flat terrain, 25mph+.

So first decide what you want from your wheels and how you'll use them, then pick something with a suitable depth.
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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12443
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

Nickldn wrote:
Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:02 pm
There's a pretty significant difference between 45mm and 60mm depth wheels.

45mm depth is pretty much general purpose, good for everything from commuting to fast group rides. More recent designs are very stable in all but the most windy conditions. ​I have 45mms on my everyday commuter.

60mm depth is much more focused on fast solo road riding and TTs. Less stable in high winds and gusty conditions and also a bit heavier. I have 55mms on my fast road bike, not so pleasant to ride on windy days, but generally faster on solo rides in flat terrain, 25mph+.

So first decide what you want from your wheels and how you'll use them, then pick something with a suitable depth.

ENVE SES 4.5 ARs aren’t 45mm, they are 49mm/55mm.

Anyway, to the OP: There is a gale warning in my area today and I rode my 54mm/63mm SES 5.6s. I weigh 67kg atm. Maybe once a while I’ll ride through a clearing and get spooky crosswind gust, but it’s fairly uncommon.

smeady
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:44 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by smeady

I'm pretty light, around 63kg so a strong wind on deeper wheels could definitely cause some issues. Leaning towards the ENVE wheels for now but will do a bit more research before I commit.Bummer HED doesn't have anything between 40mm and 60mm, seems like that's the range I should be aiming for.

I am also not focused on TTs and any solo rides I do generally have more climbing so that's pushing me away from the 60mm as well.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12443
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

smeady wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:50 am
I'm pretty light, around 63kg so a strong wind on deeper wheels could definitely cause some issues. Leaning towards the ENVE wheels for now but will do a bit more research before I commit.Bummer HED doesn't have anything between 40mm and 60mm, seems like that's the range I should be aiming for.

I am also not focused on TTs and any solo rides I do generally have more climbing so that's pushing me away from the 60mm as well.

I'm usually 60-61kg. I'd probably consider the Bontrager Aeolus RSL 51 or mix a 51 front and 62 rear. A pair of 51s will be lighter than the aging 4.5 ARs and they're also hooked, allowing you to run 25mm tubeless tires more reliably.

Light Bicycle should also have similar options for a lower price.

spdntrxi
Posts: 5782
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

5.6
4.5AR
RC4
have them all....all handle the wind well.. sorry have not tried the RC6. I'm in the low 80kg so I bit heavier then THY but yeah it was windy today. Any gusts on the 5.6s are mostly predictable so I use them the most. I do think the ARs has the best ride quality when I'm on 28mm across the board.
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thebikemanguy
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:54 am

by thebikemanguy

If you're looking at the 4.5 AR's you're playing in the very top end of the market so realistically it sounds like price isn't a factor?

I agree with the above poster who said that you probably need to figure out whether you want an all-around wheelset (45mm-ish) or deep wheels (55-65mm). I'm about your weight and live in a windy and hilly place, found deep wheels a bit of a handful at times. I also find that slightly shallower wheels ultimately feel a bit snappier and are just a bit more fun to ride day-to-day. After trying about 6 or 7 different wheels across depths (Reynolds, Enve, LB) I ultimately settled on a pair of Princeton Carbonworks Grit 4540s: modern internal width; nice and light (if built with Tune hubs); feel awesome; no crosswind issues. Bit of a left-field suggestion but give them a look.

yingyu
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:16 am

by yingyu

For a dedicated tubeless setup maybe take a look at this year's Zipp 353 (42-46mm sawtooth, 25mm internal, 28c minimum, 1315g with Shimano hub, tapes and valves, endurance-focused) or 454 (55-59mm sawtooth, 23mm internal, 25c minimum, ~1385g total, race-focused). I am 61 kg and ride a set of 353. They feel smoother than other $2k range wheels I've tried, and they are simultaneously stable and nimble on descents. They don't seem to produce much sailing effect on flats though. They are efficient for steady efforts but some may feel 28c spongy for our-of-saddle sprints.

smeady
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:44 am
Location: Seattle, WA

by smeady

Whatever wheels I pick will end up on a Tarmac SL7 w/ Ultegra Di2 (barring any major issues with the fork on the 2022 models), so Zipp wheels feel a bit sacrelige. That being said, I will definitely have to look into them. And for price trying to stay in the ~$2.5k max range so although the GRIT 4540 wheels look amazing they're stretching it a bit for me.

I probably do need to decide what my main focus is. These wheels likely won't be for racing (I have a less expensive bike I don't mind crashing as much for that), mainly just comfortable and responsive wheels for group rides, some solo longer (but not crazy fast) efforts and occasional KOM hunting on some hilly segments.

That makes me lean towards an all-around wheelset somewhere in the 45mm mark, although the ENVE wheels are 49/55 so that does lean a bit more towards a race setup.

yingyu
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:16 am

by yingyu

Zipp 303 FC (40mm depth, 25mm internal, $1.9k) would be lighter than Enve 3.4 or 4.5 AR's, but some reviews say Enve's feel snappier. 303 FC has a loud freewheel sound that I couldn't refrain from commenting when my friend let it spin.

thebikemanguy
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:54 am

by thebikemanguy

smeady wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:21 am
Whatever wheels I pick will end up on a Tarmac SL7 w/ Ultegra Di2 (barring any major issues with the fork on the 2022 models), so Zipp wheels feel a bit sacrelige. That being said, I will definitely have to look into them. And for price trying to stay in the ~$2.5k max range so although the GRIT 4540 wheels look amazing they're stretching it a bit for me.

I probably do need to decide what my main focus is. These wheels likely won't be for racing (I have a less expensive bike I don't mind crashing as much for that), mainly just comfortable and responsive wheels for group rides, some solo longer (but not crazy fast) efforts and occasional KOM hunting on some hilly segments.

That makes me lean towards an all-around wheelset somewhere in the 45mm mark, although the ENVE wheels are 49/55 so that does lean a bit more towards a race setup.
Understood on the price point. $2500 puts the Zipp 353's out of your price range (I find it pretty irritating that Zipp lists per-wheel prices on their website), but the 303 FC would work (although I would personally want a reliable known-brand set of hubs on a $2k wheelset)

One possible additional consideration is crash replacement; some brands have great policies and will literally give you a new set of wheels if you crash yours.

rudye9mr
Posts: 498
Joined: Wed May 01, 2019 12:01 pm

by rudye9mr

Less than 60kg, ran the jet4+ for a few years...loved them...

Tire width played a part in crosswind stability imo...regardless...i have felt tug at steering in gusts and when large vehicles passed near me

When i changed to discs...i opted for 40mm or less depth rims and have had even better experiences with crosswind stability though not as fast..

I set up HEDs as tubeless as well...no issues with sealing etc though some tyres were dissapointing.

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