Bora WTO 33 vs Zipp 303 FC

[grnrcr]

What I have: Roval CLX50

What I want: Something that handles crosswinds more gracefully but still somewhat aero. The Rovals are fast wheels.

On paper, WTOs look like old tech compared to the new 303 FC. I’m planning to run either 28mm or 30mm tires. All signs point toward the Zipps, but the sexiness of the WTOs and their legendary hubs are clouding my judgement.

Anyone ridden both? Thoughts?

[Nickldn]

The WTOs have an external width of 26.5mm, so absolutely un-aero with 28mm/30mm tyres.

On the other hand the 303 Firecrests are hookless........

[pmprego]

The WTOs have an external width of 26.5mm, so absolutely un-aero with 28mm/30mm tyres.

On the other hand the 303 Firecrests are hookless........

What's the thing about hookless? Just use a set of tires that are hookless compatible. The difference is that their manufacturing process needs to be tighter. Not a problem in my eyes.

[kytyree]

I've been riding the 303 FC for a while now, no issues with the hookless rims, I really like the way they corner, especially going downhill. I had to warranty the rear before I rode it due the threads for the centerlock lockring being messed up. But they've been good since. And I like the way they handle crosswinds. The hubs haven't given many any other issues but they're not Campy hubs, that's for sure.

I have a set of WTO 45's that I hope to start riding this week, though they're rim brake going on a traditional steel frame. The FC rims do look to be very well made, they're not as blingy as any of Campy's carbon though. I've been using Bora One's for awhile as well and they do give a different feel to the FC's, some of that is comparing rim to a disc brake bike. That wide profile on the 303's does isolate you from the road a bit more and I can run about 10 psi lower compared to the Bora One's using similar sized tires.

[grnrcr]

Tell me more about the difference in ride feel

[WorkonSunday]

The WTOs have an external width of 26.5mm, so absolutely un-aero with 28mm/30mm tyres.

On the other hand the 303 Firecrests are hookless........

What's the thing about hookless? Just use a set of tires that are hookless compatible. The difference is that their manufacturing process needs to be tighter. Not a problem in my eyes.

not entirely true about making it tigher. the shape of the tyre beads matter quite abit. traditional tyre bead are shaped to match hooked shape rim, if they are use on hookless rim, the beads will form a void and unable to grip onto the rim side wall properly, under load when tyres start to deform, that will increase the chance of tyre blow out. HOWEVER, thats the theory. i have seen plenty of GP5000 (TL and non-TL) being matched with ENVE and zipp hookless rims, i have yet to hear any story aout people getting injuried or having close call from blowing out. i have only seen acouple of incidents where the tubeless tyre blowout during inflation, but the owner was an idiot anyway inflating to 105psi on a tubeless setup...

EDIT: there is abit of information here on the dual angle bead design from Goodyear. https://bikerumor.com/2020/08/17/goodye ... gle-sport/

[pmprego]

The WTOs have an external width of 26.5mm, so absolutely un-aero with 28mm/30mm tyres.

On the other hand the 303 Firecrests are hookless........

What's the thing about hookless? Just use a set of tires that are hookless compatible. The difference is that their manufacturing process needs to be tighter. Not a problem in my eyes.

not entirely true about making it tigher. the shape of the tyre beads matter quite abit. traditional tyre bead are shaped to match hooked shape rim, if they are use on hookless rim, the beads will form a void and unable to grip onto the rim side wall properly, under load when tyres start to deform, that will increase the chance of tyre blow out. HOWEVER, thats the theory. i have seen plenty of GP5000 (TL and non-TL) being matched with ENVE and zipp hookless rims, i have yet to hear any story aout people getting injuried or having close call from blowing out. i have only seen acouple of incidents where the tubeless tyre blowout during inflation, but the owner was an idiot anyway inflating to 105psi on a tubeless setup...

EDIT: there is abit of information here on the dual angle bead design from Goodyear. https://bikerumor.com/2020/08/17/goodye ... gle-sport/

By tighter I was referring to tighter manufacturing tolerances and protocols. Not the materials themselves. The product out of the production line has to have less variation because hookless rims will be less forgiven. But that doesn't mean hookless rims are inferior. They just require higher quality products in them. Half glass perspective I think.

[rollinslow]

This is an easy choice...Bora's. The Zipp's are hookless which was done to save money and make manufacturing easier. With only certain tires acceptable to use and no guarantee that the hookless trend will survive that could be an expensive mistake. Zipp may be more aero but you can't run ultra fast tires like the GP5k on them.

It's widely acceptbed that Campy makes some of the best hubs. Zipp hubs are not known to be good.

[pmprego]

(...) ultra fast tires like the GP5k (...)

Ultra fast, uh. Wow. One not using those doesn't even need to bother. Already lost even before the start. I hope anyone tells allaphilippe to switch to those otherwise he can already give the jersey away.

Nonetheless, for the OP, aren't the bora kind of double the price of the 303FC? Is it even a fair comparison? Shouldn´t you be looking at the nsw version of the 303 then?

[rollinslow]

(...) ultra fast tires like the GP5k (...)

Ultra fast, uh. Wow. One not using those doesn't even need to bother. Already lost even before the start. I hope anyone tells allaphilippe to switch to those otherwise he can already give the jersey away.

You're joking right? Ever checked bicycle rolling resistance? Maybe take a few minutes to learn what actually makes a tubeless tire fast and what the top 5 are before posting.

[pmprego]

(...) ultra fast tires like the GP5k (...)

Ultra fast, uh. Wow. One not using those doesn't even need to bother. Already lost even before the start. I hope anyone tells allaphilippe to switch to those otherwise he can already give the jersey away.

You're joking right? Ever checked bicycle rolling resistance? Maybe take a few minutes to learn what actually makes a tubeless tire fast and what the top 5 are before posting.

I've checked, yes. But then others say it's not like god descended to earth and claimed that protocol to be superior to gods themselves. There are a couple more variables. I just think that claiming it "ultra fast" as if the other were ultra slow then someone not using them already lost.

[Taiyoto]

I suggest the new vision 45 or 60 SL with outer width 31mm and inner 21mm, or the Enve series

[pmprego]

I suggest the new vision 45 or 60 SL with outer width 31mm and inner 21mm, or the Enve series

He specifically said he has a 50mm and wants to go way shallower and you recommend a 60mm wheel. I dont get some people's recommendations.

[rudye9mr]

Ursus miura 37s...TL...21mm internal hooked...smooth skf bearings with option for ceramic speed

[Taiyoto]

now is not popular for 50, all tour competition use 60, including dura ace C60
actually if the price for 50 and 60 are not signigicant, I suggest to purchased the 21 year new c60 or 60SL

why?

because for the next generation, are more ligther and more aerodinamic

I suggest the new vision 45 or 60 SL with outer width 31mm and inner 21mm, or the Enve series

He specifically said he has a 50mm and wants to go way shallower and you recommend a 60mm wheel. I dont get some people's recommendations.