Bora WTO 33 vs Zipp 303 FC
Moderator: robbosmans
What I have: Roval CLX50
What I want: Something that handles crosswinds more gracefully but still somewhat aero. The Rovals are fast wheels.
On paper, WTOs look like old tech compared to the new 303 FC. I’m planning to run either 28mm or 30mm tires. All signs point toward the Zipps, but the sexiness of the WTOs and their legendary hubs are clouding my judgement.
Anyone ridden both? Thoughts?
What I want: Something that handles crosswinds more gracefully but still somewhat aero. The Rovals are fast wheels.
On paper, WTOs look like old tech compared to the new 303 FC. I’m planning to run either 28mm or 30mm tires. All signs point toward the Zipps, but the sexiness of the WTOs and their legendary hubs are clouding my judgement.
Anyone ridden both? Thoughts?
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The WTOs have an external width of 26.5mm, so absolutely un-aero with 28mm/30mm tyres.
On the other hand the 303 Firecrests are hookless........
On the other hand the 303 Firecrests are hookless........
Giant Propel Advanced SL Red Etap 11s Easton EC90 wheels CeramicSpeed BB Zipp SL70 bars 6.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
Vitus ZX1 CRS Campy Chorus 12s Bora WTO 45 disk brake wheels Zipp SL70 bars 7.5kg
SL8 build with Craft CS5060 Wheels in progress
What's the thing about hookless? Just use a set of tires that are hookless compatible. The difference is that their manufacturing process needs to be tighter. Not a problem in my eyes.
I've been riding the 303 FC for a while now, no issues with the hookless rims, I really like the way they corner, especially going downhill. I had to warranty the rear before I rode it due the threads for the centerlock lockring being messed up. But they've been good since. And I like the way they handle crosswinds. The hubs haven't given many any other issues but they're not Campy hubs, that's for sure.
I have a set of WTO 45's that I hope to start riding this week, though they're rim brake going on a traditional steel frame. The FC rims do look to be very well made, they're not as blingy as any of Campy's carbon though. I've been using Bora One's for awhile as well and they do give a different feel to the FC's, some of that is comparing rim to a disc brake bike. That wide profile on the 303's does isolate you from the road a bit more and I can run about 10 psi lower compared to the Bora One's using similar sized tires.
I have a set of WTO 45's that I hope to start riding this week, though they're rim brake going on a traditional steel frame. The FC rims do look to be very well made, they're not as blingy as any of Campy's carbon though. I've been using Bora One's for awhile as well and they do give a different feel to the FC's, some of that is comparing rim to a disc brake bike. That wide profile on the 303's does isolate you from the road a bit more and I can run about 10 psi lower compared to the Bora One's using similar sized tires.
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not entirely true about making it tigher. the shape of the tyre beads matter quite abit. traditional tyre bead are shaped to match hooked shape rim, if they are use on hookless rim, the beads will form a void and unable to grip onto the rim side wall properly, under load when tyres start to deform, that will increase the chance of tyre blow out. HOWEVER, thats the theory. i have seen plenty of GP5000 (TL and non-TL) being matched with ENVE and zipp hookless rims, i have yet to hear any story aout people getting injuried or having close call from blowing out. i have only seen acouple of incidents where the tubeless tyre blowout during inflation, but the owner was an idiot anyway inflating to 105psi on a tubeless setup...
EDIT: there is abit of information here on the dual angle bead design from Goodyear. https://bikerumor.com/2020/08/17/goodye ... gle-sport/
Some say pour 10ml water out of your bottle to save that last bit of the weight. Sorry, i go one step further, i tend to the rider off my bikes.
n+1...14 last time i checked, but i lost count
n+1...14 last time i checked, but i lost count
By tighter I was referring to tighter manufacturing tolerances and protocols. Not the materials themselves. The product out of the production line has to have less variation because hookless rims will be less forgiven. But that doesn't mean hookless rims are inferior. They just require higher quality products in them. Half glass perspective I think.WorkonSunday wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:28 amnot entirely true about making it tigher. the shape of the tyre beads matter quite abit. traditional tyre bead are shaped to match hooked shape rim, if they are use on hookless rim, the beads will form a void and unable to grip onto the rim side wall properly, under load when tyres start to deform, that will increase the chance of tyre blow out. HOWEVER, thats the theory. i have seen plenty of GP5000 (TL and non-TL) being matched with ENVE and zipp hookless rims, i have yet to hear any story aout people getting injuried or having close call from blowing out. i have only seen acouple of incidents where the tubeless tyre blowout during inflation, but the owner was an idiot anyway inflating to 105psi on a tubeless setup...
EDIT: there is abit of information here on the dual angle bead design from Goodyear. https://bikerumor.com/2020/08/17/goodye ... gle-sport/
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This is an easy choice...Bora's. The Zipp's are hookless which was done to save money and make manufacturing easier. With only certain tires acceptable to use and no guarantee that the hookless trend will survive that could be an expensive mistake. Zipp may be more aero but you can't run ultra fast tires like the GP5k on them.
It's widely acceptbed that Campy makes some of the best hubs. Zipp hubs are not known to be good.
It's widely acceptbed that Campy makes some of the best hubs. Zipp hubs are not known to be good.
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Super Record 12
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-SRAM Red viewtopic.php?f=10&t=174523
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-SRAM Red viewtopic.php?f=10&t=174523
Ultra fast, uh. Wow. One not using those doesn't even need to bother. Already lost even before the start. I hope anyone tells allaphilippe to switch to those otherwise he can already give the jersey away.
Nonetheless, for the OP, aren't the bora kind of double the price of the 303FC? Is it even a fair comparison? Shouldn´t you be looking at the nsw version of the 303 then?
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You're joking right? Ever checked bicycle rolling resistance? Maybe take a few minutes to learn what actually makes a tubeless tire fast and what the top 5 are before posting.
Moots Vamoots RSL (2019)-Super Record 12
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-SRAM Red viewtopic.php?f=10&t=174523
Cervelo S1 (2010)-Super Record 12
Kestrel RT700 (2008)-Dura Ace 9000
Mosaic GT-1 (2020)-SRAM Red viewtopic.php?f=10&t=174523
I've checked, yes. But then others say it's not like god descended to earth and claimed that protocol to be superior to gods themselves. There are a couple more variables. I just think that claiming it "ultra fast" as if the other were ultra slow then someone not using them already lost.rollinslow wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:15 pmYou're joking right? Ever checked bicycle rolling resistance? Maybe take a few minutes to learn what actually makes a tubeless tire fast and what the top 5 are before posting.
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now is not popular for 50, all tour competition use 60, including dura ace C60
actually if the price for 50 and 60 are not signigicant, I suggest to purchased the 21 year new c60 or 60SL
why?
because for the next generation, are more ligther and more aerodinamic
actually if the price for 50 and 60 are not signigicant, I suggest to purchased the 21 year new c60 or 60SL
why?
because for the next generation, are more ligther and more aerodinamic