NEW GP5000S TR

[FlatlandClimber]

Unless I have missed the biggest leap in tire making, in like, forever, this is not happening.
The Conti 5k is an absolutely amazing tire, for
Me, the best road racing tire there is. Never punctures, super fast, readily available.

Looking at faster tires however (Corsa Speed,
Michelin TT, Schwalbe P1 TT, Velo Record), they are all significantly thinner. The added thickness of the GP5000 is a protection layer against punctures. Without that, it would likely roll faster.
That's what most TT/ Track tires do, get rid of the puncture protection.

[pdlpsher1]

Yeah. There's no free lunch when it comes to physics.

The only downside to the 5000 TL is that they last too damn long!

[CampagYOLO]

Yeah. There's no free lunch when it comes to physics.

The only downside to the 5000 TL is that they last too damn long!

The beads are huge on the 5000 TL, I wonder if a weight saving could be made by just making them the same size as other tubeless tyres?

[AJS914]

I'm on my 3rd GP5000TL with zero flats. I'll gladly take the extra weight. It's close enough, weight-wise, compared with a regular GP5000 + tube.

[mrlobber]

The only downside to the 5000 TL is that they last too damn long!

It's all relative, what you consider "long", but my rear 25mm GP5k TL was squared off and already without rubber after 6k km (I'm a sub 75kg rider), so had to be changed. The front, though, is still going strong at 7k+.

[alanyu]

I'm suprised that so many people love GP5K and remark it as nearly no downaide.
The poor grip of GP5k, worse than GP4KS2 on dry and much worse on wet.

[youngs_modulus]

Have you actually measured the weight of 20mls of dried sealant? It seems to me that it would be less as the water content is so high, but I've never tried.

Stan's had a number. I used that.

No you didn't.

https://www.notubes.com/pub/media/wysiw ... DS_GHS.pdf

Stan's is mostly water and propylene glycol--about 75% by weight. At 1.006 grams per ml, its aggregate density is almost exactly that of water.

Even if the remaining 25% is solids—and it isn't—20ml of sealant weighs 5 grams or less once it has dried.

Don't fabricate data. If you don't know or you're speculating, acknowledge it—there's no shame in that. But if you don't, you're just making shit up.

You don't believe I used the first number I saw???

I believe wholeheartedly that you used the first number you saw. But you passed the buck to Stan's—"Stan's had a number"—when the error was yours. So no, you didn't use Stan's data. I linked to the actual data from Stan's.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and your extraordinary claim was backed by zero evidence. Picking the first number you come across without considering whether it makes sense is lazy at best and cherry-picking at worst.

You're right that my number doesn't pass the sniff test now that I gave it a second thought, but you can do it w/o the negativity.

You seem oblivious to this point: your number didn't pass the sniff test before you gave it a second thought. Frankly, it stank badly enough that at least two of us caught a whiff of it right away.

As for the negativity: Petromyzon pointed this out to you in an exceedingly gentle and polite way, and you dismissed that poster entirely—"Stan's had a number. I used it."

You were informed politely that your numbers made no sense, and you blew it off. Regardless of whether your dismissal was due to ignorance or arrogance, your response made it clear that you weren't responding to politeness.

Yes, I was a little brusque, but hey—it worked!

In all seriousness, I'd rather have taken a gentler approach. But you had just demonstrated your indifference to that. So...

Like I said in my initial reply: there's no shame in guessing or being uncertain--just own it.

[warthog101]

I'm suprised that so many people love GP5K and remark it as nearly no downaide.
The poor grip of GP5k, worse than GP4KS2 on dry and much worse on wet.

I have thousands of ks on each and have not noticed that at all.

Continental themselves are claiming more grip.

Here is one comparo anyway
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/25218 ... y-aero?amp

[youngs_modulus]

The poor grip of GP5k, worse than GP4KS2 on dry and much worse on wet.

I'm with Warthog101: I've not heard anything like that. where do you get the impression that GP5K grip is worse than that of the GP4K?

[alanyu]

I'm suprised that so many people love GP5K and remark it as nearly no downaide.
The poor grip of GP5k, worse than GP4KS2 on dry and much worse on wet.

I have thousands of ks on each and have not noticed that at all.

Continental themselves are claiming more grip.

Here is one comparo anyway
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/25218 ... y-aero?amp

The poor grip of GP5k, worse than GP4KS2 on dry and much worse on wet.

I'm with Warthog101: I've not heard anything like that. where do you get the impression that GP5K grip is worse than that of the GP4K?

It's based on my own experience and agreed by most of my friends who have raced crits with GP5ks. We corner to our limit and I had only once slipped out of the corner due to the low grip of GP5k, ruining my season. (never slipped out of the corner with GP4ks or Schwalbe P1s)

[warthog101]

I have raced plenty of crits also.
Also have a history of motorcycle riding including some track riding.
Yes I can get my knee on the deck on a m/cycle.
There is far less control when cornering on a bicycle without a throttle.
You still need to take the correct line and position yourself on the bicycle correctly however.
I ride with multiple others who race and that is not the feedback I am hearing at all.
They roll, ride, grip and wear well.

[TobinHatesYou]

My perception is that GP5Ks aren’t as grippy as Vittoria Corsa G2.0, Veloflex Corsa Race or Goodyear Eagle F1 tires…but perception may not be reality.

[petromyzon]

I haven't had a bad experience with them but I run my pressures so much lower than I used to.
However I do think it's odd that Conti are a couple of watts ahead on rolling resistance than other similarly constructed tyres. What are they doing to achieve this?
Either way if this new tyre removes the butyl layer of the TL there might be significant speed to be gained.
I'm pretty sure Corsa Speed is less grippy than Corsa Race and Corsa Control but it doesn't seem to stop the CRR weenies running it as an all-around tyre.

[tjvirden]

This is diverging a bit, but........

An anecdote. So far I've not detected a difference in grip between the 4000SII and the 5000 and I don't really expect to either, because if there's a difference it will be small. In my experience - and I'm sure many people have the same - a substantial difference in grip (almost always wet grip) is detectable, but only by loss of traction.

As an example, there was a very obvious difference to me in wet grip between the 4000SII and Schwalbe One (HS448); the Schwalbes were sh*t. One way of testing this is by running different tires front and rear, but keeping sizes and tire pressures very similar and riding the different combinations on the same roads. I had good warning of the poor grip of the Schwalbe One from wheelspin (rear of course), riding on steep (12%+), clean, wet pavement; never before or since have I had loss of traction in those circumstances from a wide selection of Continental and Michelin tires. At the time I put it down to a "slippery surface" and realised I was mistaken when I kept crashing from losing traction with the Schwalbe Ones, while having a different tire either front or rear. No problems since I ditched the Schwalbes. They knew it too - that's why the slower-rolling Addix compound was introduced........

Quantifying the differences is hard and really needs a suitable machine (ala the Avocet one decades back). Small differences between grip are very hard to be sure of from a riding perspective - too many uncontrollable variables.

I'm convinced that Continental's advantage really is still in their compound (ok the BlackChili marketing is cringeworthy) - they do hint that it's adjusted depending on the application, so perhaps that's what they did with the 5000.

This new GP5000S TR? Well, we'll see but given they were confident enough to give them to Ganna to race with, I think that indicates they'll be a new benchmark. Finally something better (for me) than my GP TT/GP 4000RS combo!

[youngs_modulus]

Quantifying the differences is hard and really needs a suitable machine (ala the Avocet one decades back). Small differences between grip are very hard to be sure of from a riding perspective - too many uncontrollable variables.

I'm convinced that Continental's advantage really is still in their compound (ok the BlackChili marketing is cringeworthy) - they do hint that it's adjusted depending on the application, so perhaps that's what they did with the 5000.

Oh, I agree with all of this. It's almost impossible to judge road tire grip from "feel"— you don't know you've lost grip in the front tire until you're on the deck. The rear is less disastrous but just as sudden. This is notoriously hard to quantify—I believe Tour magazine developed and then retired a rig to test lateral grip because the results just weren't repeatable.

In contrast, bicyclerollingresistance.com has done some solid work showing how Conti may very well change their Black Chilli compound quite dramatically between tire models. (I'm thinking of the Race King vs Cross King, specifically). The guy behind the site says he's working on lateral grip testing, but hasn't made anything public yet.

I wish Continental be more transparent about tread compounds. On the other hand, Schwalbe provides a ton of granularity on their casings and compounds, but somehow the details are no less opaque.