NEW GP5000S TR

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tjvirden
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:43 pm
The 20% claim was one that Continental put out there in all the media outlets.
The other claims are this one guy on this one podcast (AFAIK), but he is the representative Conti chose for this specific product, so I think his claims were backed by the company, as he gave a lot of insight into the development and prototyping of this tire.

I hope you guys understand, why I am maybe a little more disappointed in this product than I should be.
I am a Conti Fan, and love the GP5000C. So I took these claims at face value, and find this, including them blocking comments a bit of a sh!t Show.
Yes! Good investigating though :thumbup:
It is disappointing and the silliest thing is that if they'd said:

"...our new tire is only a tiny bit faster, but has a tougher sidewall, goes on hookless rims and is a little easier to fit....."

Almost everyone would have been quite happy with that.

However, in some ways it's rather amusing: Jan-Niklas Voß (aforementioned Conti representative) is clearly not someone with any significant knowledge of tire design and manufacturing. Marketing products is important, but often Conti fall flat on this - the UK website lists the 5000S TR as having the usual 3/330 tpi construction. The Supersonic has always been partially mis-advertised as having a 310 tpi casing. So I wonder if Jan-Niklas simply has no idea what's going on and in fact the compound is different. There must be plenty of skilled engineers in Korbach, but apparently they don't do podcasts.

The disappearing comments is way beyond disappointing - well done for testing it.

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 4016
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Could someone who speaks German give a summary of this video? Much appreciated!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neTukXB6Zvg

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:50 am
Could someone who speaks German give a summary of this video? Much appreciated!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neTukXB6Zvg
Nothing really, they are reading off the marketing material and describe how the tire feels.
Feels suppler, lighter, easier to mount.
They describe the construction, the difference between a TL tire and a TR tire. Black Chilli is the same as before and the same as in Gravel tires.
New 30c tire that many pros have ridden at 4bar.
Female pros have ridden the 32c at 2 bar over cobbles.
The show why it mounts on hookless and mount it on both hooked and hookless.
They explain ETRTO, and the two different pressures.
Say that you can't mount the 25c on anything wider than a 21 internal. 28c can be mounted on 25 internal.
They announce an upcoming video with Q&A and an extensive test of the tire.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

scapewalker
Posts: 261
Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:21 am
Location: Austria

by scapewalker

tjvirden wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:15 pm
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:43 pm
The 20% claim was one that Continental put out there in all the media outlets.
The other claims are this one guy on this one podcast (AFAIK), but he is the representative Conti chose for this specific product, so I think his claims were backed by the company, as he gave a lot of insight into the development and prototyping of this tire.

I hope you guys understand, why I am maybe a little more disappointed in this product than I should be.
I am a Conti Fan, and love the GP5000C. So I took these claims at face value, and find this, including them blocking comments a bit of a sh!t Show.
Yes! Good investigating though :thumbup:
It is disappointing and the silliest thing is that if they'd said:

"...our new tire is only a tiny bit faster, but has a tougher sidewall, goes on hookless rims and is a little easier to fit....."

Almost everyone would have been quite happy with that.

However, in some ways it's rather amusing: Jan-Niklas Voß (aforementioned Conti representative) is clearly not someone with any significant knowledge of tire design and manufacturing. Marketing products is important, but often Conti fall flat on this - the UK website lists the 5000S TR as having the usual 3/330 tpi construction. The Supersonic has always been partially mis-advertised as having a 310 tpi casing. So I wonder if Jan-Niklas simply has no idea what's going on and in fact the compound is different. There must be plenty of skilled engineers in Korbach, but apparently they don't do podcasts.

The disappearing comments is way beyond disappointing - well done for testing it.
Jan-Niklas Voß actually appears to be a 100% confident in what he says here. It looks to me like he was actually confident in the claims Conti made and marketing talk.
Why would he go on and on about how much faster they feel in his real world tests and now amazing they performed in the Contis own tests. He even mentions how excited he is for BRR to test them. That didn't age well :lol:
Assuming Conti really does care about what BRR and Aerocoach has to say why not invest some resources into replicating their test rig/procedure to avoid such humiliation.

CampagYOLO
Posts: 705
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

scapewalker wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:32 pm
tjvirden wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:15 pm
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:43 pm
The 20% claim was one that Continental put out there in all the media outlets.
The other claims are this one guy on this one podcast (AFAIK), but he is the representative Conti chose for this specific product, so I think his claims were backed by the company, as he gave a lot of insight into the development and prototyping of this tire.

I hope you guys understand, why I am maybe a little more disappointed in this product than I should be.
I am a Conti Fan, and love the GP5000C. So I took these claims at face value, and find this, including them blocking comments a bit of a sh!t Show.
Yes! Good investigating though :thumbup:
It is disappointing and the silliest thing is that if they'd said:

"...our new tire is only a tiny bit faster, but has a tougher sidewall, goes on hookless rims and is a little easier to fit....."

Almost everyone would have been quite happy with that.

However, in some ways it's rather amusing: Jan-Niklas Voß (aforementioned Conti representative) is clearly not someone with any significant knowledge of tire design and manufacturing. Marketing products is important, but often Conti fall flat on this - the UK website lists the 5000S TR as having the usual 3/330 tpi construction. The Supersonic has always been partially mis-advertised as having a 310 tpi casing. So I wonder if Jan-Niklas simply has no idea what's going on and in fact the compound is different. There must be plenty of skilled engineers in Korbach, but apparently they don't do podcasts.

The disappearing comments is way beyond disappointing - well done for testing it.
Jan-Niklas Voß actually appears to be a 100% confident in what he says here. It looks to me like he was actually confident in the claims Conti made and marketing talk.
Why would he go on and on about how much faster they feel in his real world tests and now amazing they performed in the Contis own tests. He even mentions how excited he is for BRR to test them. That didn't age well :lol:
Assuming Conti really does care about what BRR and Aerocoach has to say why not invest some resources into replicating their test rig/procedure to avoid such humiliation.
Humiliation is a bit strong, I mean this tyre did just win Paris Roubaix and the World Champs TT so real world race testing would suggest it's really good.

I think people are getting carried away with some marketing claims and far more angry then they really need to be. Save your anger for the things that really matter!

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Well, a tire winning a race is like saying the race was won on Speedplay pedals or a Shimano Dura Ace 9100...

Ganna won, because he is far and away the best TTist in the world.
It is absolutely possible that the new tire "made him faster" in terms of added grip, confidence or comfort.
However, would he have won the race on other tires, including the GP5000TL? Very likely.
And the Corsa Speed are still loads faster. Not to speak of the Veloflex Record.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

warthog101
Posts: 872
Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:05 am

by warthog101

CampagYOLO wrote:
Humiliation is a bit strong, I mean this tyre did just win Paris Roubaix and the World Champs TT so real world race testing would suggest it's really good.

I think people are getting carried away with some marketing claims and far more angry then they really need to be. Save your anger for the things that really matter!
Well said.
I will buy them.
Didn't have a prob with the TLs though.
Go on my wheels easily and are pretty durable whilst rolling well.

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

pdlpsher1 wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:50 am
Could someone who speaks German give a summary of this video? Much appreciated!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neTukXB6Zvg
FWIW, with youtube you can turn on close captioning and then turn on 'auto translate' captions to the language of your choice. It works ok.

AJS914
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:52 pm

by AJS914

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:59 pm
Well, a tire winning a race is like saying the race was won on Speedplay pedals or a Shimano Dura Ace 9100...

Ganna won, because he is far and away the best TTist in the world.
It is absolutely possible that the new tire "made him faster" in terms of added grip, confidence or comfort.
However, would he have won the race on other tires, including the GP5000TL? Very likely.
And the Corsa Speed are still loads faster. Not to speak of the Veloflex Record.
But how dainty are those other tires? What if Ganna got a flat in the world TT championship? Does he still win by 6 seconds?

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Aryeh
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:07 am

by Aryeh

My pair of 28mm transparent GP5000s shipped from R2-bike today.
I thought they weren't coming until next year.

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

AJS914 wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:48 pm
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:59 pm
Well, a tire winning a race is like saying the race was won on Speedplay pedals or a Shimano Dura Ace 9100...

Ganna won, because he is far and away the best TTist in the world.
It is absolutely possible that the new tire "made him faster" in terms of added grip, confidence or comfort.
However, would he have won the race on other tires, including the GP5000TL? Very likely.
And the Corsa Speed are still loads faster. Not to speak of the Veloflex Record.
But how dainty are those other tires? What if Ganna got a flat in the world TT championship? Does he still win by 6 seconds?
If Wout had taken a wrong turn, maybe...

Wout was on very thin Corsa Speed tires, so he was running a "risk". Additionally, the puncture resistance of the TR is rated WORSE on the thread, than that of the TL. So, you can make that argument in the other direction, too.
Lastly, the point made in the podcast is, that Ganna would have lost on the old tire, and even that Wout might have won on TRs, and since neither of two punctured, we can clearly say this is BS.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

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pdlpsher1
Posts: 4016
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

Thanks Flatlandclimber and AJS914.

I’ll be doing my maiden ride these today. Will post my impressions after the ride.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

I have done my maiden ride on these already. Really good tire. Feels a little nicer in corners than the TL, but not better than the TC imo.
Feeling which one is faster is probably impossible.
Just so it doesnt appear like I am just blindly hating on the product:
Image
Image
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

kode54
Posts: 3749
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:39 pm

by kode54

Thx. The transparent sidewalls looks like a nice color.
- Factor Ostro VAM Disc
- Factor LS Disc
- Specialized Aethos Disc
- Sturdy Ti Allroad Disc
- Guru Praemio R Disc

by Weenie


Visit starbike.com Online Retailer for HighEnd cycling components
Great Prices ✓    Broad Selection ✓    Worldwide Delivery ✓

www.starbike.com



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pdlpsher1
Posts: 4016
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

I'm mainly interested in the ride quality now that I know these tires aren't faster. But I have the impression that new tires always ride better than fully worn out tires. Worn out tires feel harsh since there's lack of rubber to damp road vibrations. Does anyone have the same observation? So even before I have ridden these I'm already anticipating the improved ride quality. It's also possible that these lighter and thinner tires will ride like a worn out TL 🤣

Now if the Corsa Speeds come in a 32mm I'll probably buy it in a heartbeat.

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