NEW GP5000S TR

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If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
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pdlpsher1
Posts: 4013
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: CO

by pdlpsher1

That's quite a bit of size difference (2mm less tall, 1mm less wide). That would explain the RR didn't drop as expected. Having one less layer of casing and no butyl layer should result in lower RR in theory when all else are equal. When my new TR 32mm arrive I'll be able to do a side-by-side physical comparison against a new TL 32mm. I hope the reduction in size doesn't affect all sizes. I like big tires at lower pressures.

Would someone be kind enough to post the watts at 60psi against the TL? If you're not comfortable you can also post the relative difference and state which one is higher. Thanks.

spdntrxi
Posts: 5782
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:11 pm

by spdntrxi

bummer.. I'll stick with Vittoria and Schwalbe
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by Weenie


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FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:21 pm
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:41 pm
Really looking forward to the AC test. Since the Veloflex Record Test, I don't trust BRR so much anymore...
Why? Because they tested the different version of Veloflex Record (BRR got the updated, slower but gripper version) thus get different result?
I think it's logical to test the most updated version of the tire at the time of the test. Because that's what user will get going forward, rather than find an old, legendary-fast version to match AC's test.
Is there any proof to the "new version" being slower and grippier? According to Veloflex, it is all the same tire and I have both, they weigh exactly the same and feel absolutely equally thin.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

Hexsense
Posts: 3254
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Mocs123 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:00 pm

Where do you see that BRR tests tubeless tires with tubes in them? I know he tests all his clincher tires with a 100g Continental Race tube but I've seen nothing to make me think he puts a tube in tubeless tires to test them.
Hmm, right. I think I mistake it.
Otherwise, if it's all with tube the tubeless tire won't be faster than with tube in those tests.

Hexsense
Posts: 3254
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

FlatlandClimber wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:04 pm
Is there any proof to the "new version" being slower and grippier? According to Veloflex, it is all the same tire and I have both, they weigh exactly the same and feel absolutely equally thin.
I don't have a third party proof.
Just from BRR note on Silica compound version.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... lex-record

It wouldn't weight more or less or get thinner or thicker if they just alter the rubber compound slightly.

bobones
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

...
Last edited by bobones on Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bobones
Posts: 1259
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:19 am

by bobones

Duplicate.

FlatlandClimber
Posts: 2491
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:37 pm

by FlatlandClimber

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:28 pm
FlatlandClimber wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:04 pm
Is there any proof to the "new version" being slower and grippier? According to Veloflex, it is all the same tire and I have both, they weigh exactly the same and feel absolutely equally thin.
I don't have a third party proof.
Just from BRR note on Silica compound version.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... lex-record

It wouldn't weight more or less or get thinner or thicker if they just alter the rubber compound slightly.
The test by Aerocoach was in October 2020:
Image

The Veloflex Record has been revised many times, and they have tested the same tire.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg

*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7

morganb
Posts: 732
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:30 pm

by morganb

It looks like the tire got smaller once again. I wonder if I should get 28mm for AR56 since the 25mm is pretty much an old 23mm now, which would be borderline at the internal width.

tjvirden
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm

by tjvirden

tanhalt wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:04 pm
I've had great success with just using small lengths of cotton butcher's cord inserted with the Genuine Innovations "fork" tool. The key to having them stay put is performing a ~quarter-turn twist of the tool prior to removal. This forms a loop inside the tire that makes it more difficult to work it's way out and even eventually becomes a "mushroom head" after sealant coagulates on it. Never had one of these come out in hundreds to thousands of miles of riding on them. No need to "ride at low pressures for several days". They've basically been permanent repairs on tires for me. Much less expensive than Dyna Plug and very easy to use since the cotton cord can be pre-loaded in the tool and ready to go. BTW, the same "twist" technique should be used with the elastomer coated "strips of bacon" as well to prevent pull-out. The full write-up is here: https://bikeblather.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... gging.html
Thanks for posting this - I, for one, will give it a go when the need arises.

tanhalt
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

Hexsense wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:28 pm
ryanw wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:23 pm
I'd wait on the AeroCoach results before making your mind up on these tyres.
... I would say that these ride better and have better feel than the Veloflex, but potentially down to greater volume / lower pressures.
Ride better is receipe for worse drumroll test on BRR.
BRR test everything with butyl tube inside. Butyl have quite some loss to compress and rebound. So, any stiff tire that reduce the deformation of the inner tube is going to test better. I like that AeroCoach test tubeless tire tubeless...
I'm sorry to have to say this, but this is not true. Any tire stiff enough to reduce the deformation of the tube in a given test condition is ALSO going to be highly "lossy" in it's own right. There's no "free lunch"...and what you state is a myth based upon a misunderstanding of the mechanisms/physics at hand and "sketchy" data.

Hexsense
Posts: 3254
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:41 am
Location: USA

by Hexsense

Thank you for pointing out.
There go another misconception cleared out of my head.

ruffryder
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:01 am

by ruffryder

morganb wrote:It looks like the tire got smaller once again. I wonder if I should get 28mm for AR56 since the 25mm is pretty much an old 23mm now, which would be borderline at the internal width.
Yup, way too narrow for the AR56, looked ridiculous when I mounted it. Go with the 28s, better ride anyways without too much of an aero /weight penalty.

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JWTS
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:44 pm

by JWTS

tjvirden wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:37 pm
CampagYOLO wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:19 am
Results are in from BRR, according to them basically the same performance as the old TL tyre and slightly worse puncture protection.

Jarno found it much easier to fit which is a big win though.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.co ... -5000-s-tr
It's important to note, as Jarno does, that the sizing is different - the new tire is effectively smaller and that means a direct RR comparison is not so easy. What we don't know is exactly how Conti test their tires - how do they get to that 20% figure? I wish they'd make it public...........

I think real-world flat resistance and perceived grip will be interesting to hear about once plenty of users are out there.
Yeah, I think this is getting lost here... If you normalize pressure to total tire volume, I'm willing to bet the new 5000S does actually roll slightly faster. Of course, in my experience the actual ranking of tire Crr can change depending on the size; e.g. the 5000s 28's may be faster be a reasonable margin. Or they may not be..

Bottom like though, Crr seems to be within the margin of the test (no error bars...) and certainly within the variance of the samples. So, you're gaining hookless compatibility, easier mounting and lighter weight in exchange for worse puncture protection on the tread--and likely shorter life.

The other thing worth noting is aerodynamics, if you're at the point end and looking for "the fastest tire". Honestly, this was has me wondering a bit. It runs a bit more narrow, which may be good--but I suspect that the couple of mm off of the middle section is going to impact aerodynamics a bit. The parabolic shape of the old one likely had some unintended consequences of making the tire and aero standout (like the old 4000S). It may end up being slower overall. Probably have to wait for some data on it.

by Weenie


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tanhalt
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:36 pm

by tanhalt

tjvirden wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:58 pm
tanhalt wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:04 pm
I've had great success with just using small lengths of cotton butcher's cord inserted with the Genuine Innovations "fork" tool. The key to having them stay put is performing a ~quarter-turn twist of the tool prior to removal. This forms a loop inside the tire that makes it more difficult to work it's way out and even eventually becomes a "mushroom head" after sealant coagulates on it. Never had one of these come out in hundreds to thousands of miles of riding on them. No need to "ride at low pressures for several days". They've basically been permanent repairs on tires for me. Much less expensive than Dyna Plug and very easy to use since the cotton cord can be pre-loaded in the tool and ready to go. BTW, the same "twist" technique should be used with the elastomer coated "strips of bacon" as well to prevent pull-out. The full write-up is here: https://bikeblather.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... gging.html
Thanks for posting this - I, for one, will give it a go when the need arises.
:thumbup:

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