NEW GP5000S TR
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The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.
If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
The spirit of this board is to compile and organize wheels and tires related discussions.
If a new wheel tech is released, (say for example, TPU tubes, a brand new tire, or a new rim standard), feel free to start the discussion in the popular "Road". Your topic will eventually be moved here!
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Probably around the same, brr has said before that tubeless is similar to latex tubes
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https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/tubeless-s ... resistance
They test clinchers with latex. The rolling resistance of a latex tube added to a tubeless tyre is barely measurable. I'm not clear how much sealant they put in their tubeless tests but probably none.
They test clinchers with latex. The rolling resistance of a latex tube added to a tubeless tyre is barely measurable. I'm not clear how much sealant they put in their tubeless tests but probably none.
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I would assume they used 30ml sealant for the S TR and all tubeless tests - the number for 30ml from the test below on the TL matches what they have on the main tyre results pagejustRideIt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:32 pmIf aerocoach tests the S TR with a latex tube:
does anyone have an idea what the rolling resistance would be in a tubeless Setup with say 30ml sealant?
https://www.aero-coach.co.uk/tubeless-s ... resistance
From how they ride (greatly improved over 5000TL) and their much lower weight, I'm super happy with the CRR numbers.
They're not far off TCs and Corsa Speeds yet hopefully shall be much more durable.
They're not far off TCs and Corsa Speeds yet hopefully shall be much more durable.
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Yep, spot onaeroisnteverything wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:22 pmBroadly the picture remains thus: Conti 5000 in its clincher and tubeless guises was and remains the fastest tyre availabe that you can sensibly ride every day. The tubeless has been improved in installation ease and weight so it will become the right choice for more people. Performance is largely the same as it was.
I think by "clincher" they mean "not tubular" aka "clincher/tubeless." You wouldn't be able to test most tubeless ready tires, like the Corsa Speed, because they won't hold air without sealant.petromyzon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:40 pmThey test clinchers with latex. The rolling resistance of a latex tube added to a tubeless tyre is barely measurable. I'm not clear how much sealant they put in their tubeless tests but probably none.
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EVO4 | build thread coming soon
S5 Disc
SystemSix (sold) | 8.01kg
P5 Disc | heavy but fast
We test with 30ml for tubeless (Zefal), Vittoria latex for clincher, but it's basically the same Crr even if you stick a latex tube in a tubeless tyre.
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The reason I find the results underwhelming is, because Conti clearly stated, that the do their own internal testing, on a metal drum, very similar to BRR, and they measured 20% performance improvement.
A Conti rep said on a German podcast, that he is very keen to see the results and thinks they'll be very close to the Corsa Speed.
They are not.
The tire is lighter than before, but also sacrificed puncture protection.
Regarding the comment on BRR and AC results being within the margin of error... that really doesn't explain the differences in the results for the Veloflex Record (and yes, they used the same tire).
Apparently, non-vulcanized tires perform better in ACs protocol than in BRRs. Maybe that is because non-v tires can gain more from paired with a latex tube... maybe it is the protocol, with AC also testing on the track...
Dunno.
A Conti rep said on a German podcast, that he is very keen to see the results and thinks they'll be very close to the Corsa Speed.
They are not.
The tire is lighter than before, but also sacrificed puncture protection.
Regarding the comment on BRR and AC results being within the margin of error... that really doesn't explain the differences in the results for the Veloflex Record (and yes, they used the same tire).
Apparently, non-vulcanized tires perform better in ACs protocol than in BRRs. Maybe that is because non-v tires can gain more from paired with a latex tube... maybe it is the protocol, with AC also testing on the track...
Dunno.
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All this talk about Turbo Cottons, in Australia at least the Turbo Cotton is $120-$140 per tyre. GP5000TL could be regularly had at $80, I'm expecting in time the Gp5000TR will be the same. There is no way I can justify ponying up for the Turbo Cottons.
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As of now, you can find cheaper TCs than GP5000s in the EU, but the 5000s will likely come down a little to match that price of the the TC.
To justify pricing on high end tires:
The performance and comfort advantage of tires/tubes/sealant amount choice trumps most other performance upgrades people make on their bikes, and are willing to pay thousands of "currency units" for.
For example, the Specialized Turbo Cotton test 8W faster than something like the Schwalbe Pro One - both commonly used performance tires - at 45kph.
8W is the advantage of a new Canyon Aeroad CFR over the outgoing SLX, or the Pinarello F12 over the F10 (both numbers are according to manufactures claims)... both of which are basically 4000-5000€ upgrades.
To go from one carbon aero wheel (say old 303 Firecrest) to another (say DTSwiss ARC 1100db 62) is probably less than 8W at that speed, and will set you back €2000.
Also, tires can significantly improve handling, feel of the bike, confidence, and comfort.
Hard to find all of that in any other component, especially one that "only costs a few hundred quid".
To justify pricing on high end tires:
The performance and comfort advantage of tires/tubes/sealant amount choice trumps most other performance upgrades people make on their bikes, and are willing to pay thousands of "currency units" for.
For example, the Specialized Turbo Cotton test 8W faster than something like the Schwalbe Pro One - both commonly used performance tires - at 45kph.
8W is the advantage of a new Canyon Aeroad CFR over the outgoing SLX, or the Pinarello F12 over the F10 (both numbers are according to manufactures claims)... both of which are basically 4000-5000€ upgrades.
To go from one carbon aero wheel (say old 303 Firecrest) to another (say DTSwiss ARC 1100db 62) is probably less than 8W at that speed, and will set you back €2000.
Also, tires can significantly improve handling, feel of the bike, confidence, and comfort.
Hard to find all of that in any other component, especially one that "only costs a few hundred quid".
Last edited by FlatlandClimber on Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cervelo P5 Disc (2021) 9.1kg
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg
*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7
Factor Ostro Gravel (2023) 8.0kg
S-Works SL8 (2023) 6.3kg
*weights are race ready, size 58/L.
Sold: Venge, S5 Disc, Roubaix Team, Open WI.DE, Émonda, Shiv TT, Crux, Aethos, SL7
8 watts is significant and I think tires are the absolute best value upgrade for your bike (and latex tubes if you're using clinchers). I'd have no problems paying the super high price for the Specialized Turbo Cottons though I'm not sure they are durable enough for day to day use. I also had a poor expeiance with another Specialized tire, the Turbo Pro.
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2020 Trek Emonda SLR-7 Disc - 6.86kg
2023 Specialized SL7 - 7.18kg
2020 Trek Emonda SLR-7 Disc - 6.86kg
2023 Specialized SL7 - 7.18kg
My S TR 32s came in. The weights are 315g, 318g, 318g, 319g, and 320g. The TL 32 new sample I have is 382g. In the hand the weight difference was quite substantial and more than I had anticipated. The new tire felt much thinner and softer. The old one felt quite bulky in comparison. The new bead is about the same width as the old but not quite as tall. So there's a very slight weight saving from the new and slimmer bead. The back of the new is smoother than the old. The old has these sharp ribbings. The new one has very faint ribbings. The sidewall of the new felt very slightly thicker. The tread thickness of the new felt much much thinner in the hand. The unmounted width is the same between the two, about 80-81mm wide depending where you take the measurement. In summery the new tire feels like a brand new tire in the hand, not a slight rework of the old tire. The small differences in the specs. might suggest that these two tires are very similar. But I can assure you they felt completely different in the hand. I hope the new one also rides like a different tire. In the pics below the left is the old and right is the new.
^^^ Thanks for the first-hand account, interesting
I'm a little disappointed by the results, we were led to believe these were going to be dream tyre; fixing the weight and feel issue of the 5000 and still improving performance even more. Now it seems they perform the same (i.e. the 20% faster claim was rubbish) but we may need to accept a reduction in robustness to achieve the weight/feel benefits. That said I'll absolutely get a set in 30s when they are widely available, that RR reduction over my current Eagle F1's is too good to refuse
I'm a little disappointed by the results, we were led to believe these were going to be dream tyre; fixing the weight and feel issue of the 5000 and still improving performance even more. Now it seems they perform the same (i.e. the 20% faster claim was rubbish) but we may need to accept a reduction in robustness to achieve the weight/feel benefits. That said I'll absolutely get a set in 30s when they are widely available, that RR reduction over my current Eagle F1's is too good to refuse
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Mounting the TR was very easy. They are indeed looser than the TL but not substantially looser. I would say the tightness is in between the TL and the non-TL GP5K. I can most certainly do it without levers but I always use a lever because it's so much faster. When using a lever I don't need to squeeze the beads onto the rim's center channel. The lever movement tightens the bead and the bead automatically falls into the channel. Because the tire is looser I wasn't able to inflate it using an air compressor initially. Upon inspection the air was escaping from the valve stem area. The beads were sitting on top of the valve stem allowing air to escape around the bead. Once I push the beads off the stem it seated with one puff from the air compressor. Even without sealant I cannot hear any air leaking out. I decided to pump the tires up to the maximum allowed pressure (73psi) and let it sit overnight. I will check it in the morning to see how much air has escaped. I will add sealant tomorrow. Unfortunately my riding plans for the next couple days are to ride another bike. But I will try to ride it around the block to get a first impression. I run between 50-55psi.
Based on the thinness of the new tread I estimate the new tire will have 50% of the wear life of the old. Now that may be shocking to those new to the GP5K. But the old TL is actually too durable to a fault. There's so much rubber still left after the TWIs (tire wear indicators) have disappeared. I can wear the GP5K non-TL down to the casing not too long after the TWIs are gone. But I haven't managed to wear the TL down to the casing well after the TWIs are long gone. For a high-performance tire there's simply too much rubber (and weight) in the TL. I'm happy that the TR has found a nice balance between weight and durability.
Based on the thinness of the new tread I estimate the new tire will have 50% of the wear life of the old. Now that may be shocking to those new to the GP5K. But the old TL is actually too durable to a fault. There's so much rubber still left after the TWIs (tire wear indicators) have disappeared. I can wear the GP5K non-TL down to the casing not too long after the TWIs are gone. But I haven't managed to wear the TL down to the casing well after the TWIs are long gone. For a high-performance tire there's simply too much rubber (and weight) in the TL. I'm happy that the TR has found a nice balance between weight and durability.