Tubeless vs tubed

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GregR
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:03 pm

by GregR

This may seem like a topic from years ago. However, I'm curious about whether people are still happy with tubeless after having lengthy experience with them.
Personally, my 25c GP4000s that I have on my current bike are starting to look worn (after 7800 km) so I'm trying to decide between another set of tube tires, or making the transition to tubeless.
So, with all the experience on this board with tubeless, is everyone still sold on them? Has anyone gone back to tubes? If you have stuck with tubeless, what do you love about them? What don't you like?
Tubed tires are pretty easy. Tubeless seems a lot more difficult. Possibly messy.
I can change a tube pretty fast on the side of the road. With tubeless, if the sealant doesn't work, not sure if I can fix that on the go. And if I can, it won't be easy.
Is there enough benefit from tubeless to balance the extra hassle, or is there less hassle than I think?

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jlok
Posts: 2400
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:30 am

by jlok

I think you have almost answered yourself.

I'm not gonna decide for you, but what I like both sides so far:
1. Corsa Control G2.0 TLR grip is phenomenal.
2. Pro One TLE is very easy to install. Feel fast.
3. High Road SL + S-Tubo combination is very light, comfortable and fast rolling. I put it on my front wheel.
4. GP5000 clincher side wall is fragile.

My choice after a few years of tubeless adventure is to stick with tubes. I like the light weight feel (feel easier to accelerate) and easy tire change (Hourses for courses as I have only single wheelset for all purposes).
Rikulau V9 DB Custom < BMC TM02 < Litespeed T1sl Disc < Giant Propel Advanced SL Disc 1 < Propel Adv < TCR Adv SL Disc < KTM Revelator Sky < CAAD 12 Disc < Domane S Disc < Alize < CAAD 10

req110
Posts: 867
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:23 am

by req110

I had

GP5000 TL, in sizes 25, 28 even 32 - fast tires, heavy, not so grippy, not so comfortable, very tight on the wheel, if you puncture, you have hard times inserting tube underneath them

Pirelli PZero Race TLR 26 - fast enough, grippy, weight around 275g

Anyway, i am back on clinchers with tubolito s-tubo (front) and tubolito road on rear.
Clincher tires i am using are GP5000 25mm. Not bad.

I have two more bikes (gravel + mtb) both on tubeless, so i am glad i don't need to hassle with tubeless that much and i see that road tubeless is not providing that much protection, and if you puncture, the probability of self-healing is much lower than on 1.2-3 bar pressure you are having on CX/MTB bikes.
SW SL8 RTP 56cm @ 9270 / CLX II / CS OSPW / CEMA BB
S Epic 8 L @ XX T-Type / Berg Ratheberg 30 / Quarq / Fox Transfer SL 100mm / 3p

ghostinthemachine
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 9:18 pm

by ghostinthemachine

I base it on what I'm doing and how often I puncture.
On the road bike, with the number of punctures I get (about 1 every 2 years) it's just not worth it, medium volume (28 ish), high quality tyres with light latex or butyl tubes is more than good enough, I might gain ~10 theoretical watts going to tubeless. But for the hassle, I'd rather just use good tubulars and fit them properly instead. (Which is what I do.)
I use tubeless on all but one of my off road bikes (MTB/CX/Gravel) because the extra traction I can get, is of benefit. I've still got 2 or 3 sets of tubulars for the CX, which I've pretty much retired. Only get used on the muddiest and windiest of courses.

ghostinthemachine
Posts: 780
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 9:18 pm

by ghostinthemachine

Oh. I ran ~two seasons of my training bike on tubeless. And my other half is still running them on two or three bikes (team commitments).

CampagYOLO
Posts: 706
Joined: Thu May 06, 2021 3:58 pm

by CampagYOLO

I've tried several road tubeless set ups but I'm in the process of moving back to latex/aerothan tubes, it's a lighter set up and in my experience, road tubeless just isn't reliable enough with dealing with punctures.

I used GP5000 TL's, Hutchinson Fusion 5's, Rubino Pro TLR's and Veloflex Corsa's. Installation was easy with all of them and they all rode well.

Happy with tubeless on the gravel bike, the lack of pinch punctures is a bigger benefit off road and sealant is a lot happier at lower pressures.

HenryH
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 am

by HenryH

I went for years with latex without a single flat. New set of wheels and I decided to change to tubeless. Installing them were a complete nightmare so I have no idea how I would solve a puncture that won't seal on the road.

The thing of course how often would that happen?

One of the reasons I went tubeless was to see if it would work better for multi day trips. Small pumps are a nightmare to get to 90psi, but unfortunately my current 5000 TL aren't really holding air that much better than what I used to get from latex so I still got to pump.

So I don't know. It almost becomes a physological question. If you worry about that one puncture and the hassle that could potentially give you then I wouldn't recommend tubeless. If that doesn't worry you then tubeless will still offer some small benefits in my mind. You migth get small punctures you won't ever notice. And even if I'm not convinced I would be able to notice in a blind test they do seem slightly more comfortable to me. Kind of got the feeling that I will continue riding tubeless until I get that one puncture I can't fix. That isn't completely rational of course.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12457
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

HenryH wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:52 am
I went for years with latex without a single flat. New set of wheels and I decided to change to tubeless. Installing them were a complete nightmare so I have no idea how I would solve a puncture that won't seal on the road.

The thing of course how often would that happen?

One of the reasons I went tubeless was to see if it would work better for multi day trips. Small pumps are a nightmare to get to 90psi, but unfortunately my current 5000 TL aren't really holding air that much better than what I used to get from latex so I still got to pump.

So I don't know. It almost becomes a physological question. If you worry about that one puncture and the hassle that could potentially give you then I wouldn't recommend tubeless. If that doesn't worry you then tubeless will still offer some small benefits in my mind. You migth get small punctures you won't ever notice. And even if I'm not convinced I would be able to notice in a blind test they do seem slightly more comfortable to me. Kind of got the feeling that I will continue riding tubeless until I get that one puncture I can't fix. That isn't completely rational of course.

Years without a flat? How many people can make that claim?

If your tubeless setup isn’t holding air noticeably better than latex, you’re doing something wrong. I expect to lose about 10% a day with latex tubes. I expect to lose 1-2% a day with most tubeless tires. With Goodyear tubeless tires, it’s more like 3% per week.

Also GP5Ks stretch considerably after inflation. They come off quite easily compared to initial mounting. Surely you must have noticed that after wearing through your first rear tire.

HenryH
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 am

by HenryH

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:18 am
HenryH wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:52 am
I went for years with latex without a single flat. New set of wheels and I decided to change to tubeless. Installing them were a complete nightmare so I have no idea how I would solve a puncture that won't seal on the road.

The thing of course how often would that happen?

One of the reasons I went tubeless was to see if it would work better for multi day trips. Small pumps are a nightmare to get to 90psi, but unfortunately my current 5000 TL aren't really holding air that much better than what I used to get from latex so I still got to pump.

So I don't know. It almost becomes a physological question. If you worry about that one puncture and the hassle that could potentially give you then I wouldn't recommend tubeless. If that doesn't worry you then tubeless will still offer some small benefits in my mind. You migth get small punctures you won't ever notice. And even if I'm not convinced I would be able to notice in a blind test they do seem slightly more comfortable to me. Kind of got the feeling that I will continue riding tubeless until I get that one puncture I can't fix. That isn't completely rational of course.

Years without a flat? How many people can make that claim?

If your tubeless setup isn’t holding air noticeably better than latex, you’re doing something wrong. I expect to lose about 10% a day with latex tubes. I expect to lose 1-2% a day with most tubeless tires. With Goodyear tubeless tires, it’s more like 3% per week.

Also GP5Ks stretch considerably after inflation. They come off quite easily compared to initial mounting. Surely you must have noticed that after wearing through your first rear tire.
Probably because of the rim brakes. "Doing something wrong" :lol: Surely I haven´t worn out any tires yet. Probably also because of rim brakes as they are so light there is harldy any wear at all.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12457
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

HenryH wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:34 am

Probably because of the rim brakes. "Doing something wrong" :lol: Surely I haven´t worn out any tires yet. Probably also because of rim brakes as they are so light there is harldy any wear at all.

Okay, I get it. You’re a troll.

HenryH
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 am

by HenryH

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:41 am
HenryH wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:34 am

Probably because of the rim brakes. "Doing something wrong" :lol: Surely I haven´t worn out any tires yet. Probably also because of rim brakes as they are so light there is harldy any wear at all.

Okay, I get it. You’re a troll.
Surely :lol:

As for the OP. Maybe you can't get lucky and only lose 1-2% per day with tubeless, I couldn't say that is impossible, but I wouldn't expect it (based on my and others I know ride tubeless experiences). Even if the omniscient Tobin says so. For most riders it probably isn't that important anyway - just some of my personal experiences from a troll that can't even install tires.

TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12457
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

HenryH wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:05 pm

Surely :lol:

As for the OP. Maybe you can't get lucky and only lose 1-2% per day with tubeless, I couldn't say that is impossible, but I wouldn't expect it (based on my and others I know ride tubeless experiences). Even if the omniscient Tobin says so. For most riders it probably isn't that important anyway - just some of my personal experiences from a troll that can't even install tires.

Go ahead, ask everyone else (just like when you asked about thru-axles, but didn’t accept the answers.) How about searching any of the numerous tubeless threads on this forum? I rode my gravel bike for the first time in 3 weeks on Monday and when I pumped it up, it was still at 33psi (down from 50psi.)

My Goodyear Eagle F1s lose 3% A WEEK. My Schwalbe Pro Ones lose 2% a day. The best tubeless setups will have air retention somewhere close to a standard butyl tube. Most will be slightly worse than a light butyl tube, but significantly better than a latex tube.

Perhaps Dave Rome is also in on my conspiracy?
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HenryH
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 am

by HenryH

TobinHatesYou wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:17 pm
HenryH wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:05 pm

Surely :lol:

As for the OP. Maybe you can't get lucky and only lose 1-2% per day with tubeless, I couldn't say that is impossible, but I wouldn't expect it (based on my and others I know ride tubeless experiences). Even if the omniscient Tobin says so. For most riders it probably isn't that important anyway - just some of my personal experiences from a troll that can't even install tires.

Go ahead, ask everyone else (just like when you asked about thru-axles, but didn’t accept the answers.) How about searching any of the numerous tubeless threads on this forum? I rode my gravel bike for the first time in 3 weeks on Monday and when I pumped it up, it was still at 33psi (down from 50psi.)

My Goodyear Eagle F1s lose 3% A WEEK. My Schwalbe Pro Ones lose 2% a day. A good tubeless setup will have air retention somewhere between a standard butyl tube and light butyl tube.
I'm sorry for hurting your feelings as I don't accept undocummented claims made by you. That is my only crime. As soon as you disapperead from that conversation we did have a good discussion on the topic.

And I'm not claiming that your setup here is wrong. I'm just saying my experience is different. The OP will have to decide how he deals with that uncertainty.

And I notice that your gravel bike, at much lower pressure than most ride their road bikes, lost about 2% per day.

HenryH
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:38 am

by HenryH

Inventing stuff again Tobin. Conspiracy? Did I say it was wrong? Best evidence you got is one picture saying SOME tubeless systems are QUITE effective :lol:

I can agree with that. How can anyone disagree really.

by Weenie


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TobinHatesYou
Posts: 12457
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:02 pm

by TobinHatesYou

HenryH wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:27 pm

I'm sorry for hurting your feelings as I don't accept undocummented claims made by you. That is my only crime. As soon as you disapperead from that conversation we did have a good discussion on the topic.

And I'm not claiming that your setup here is wrong. I'm just saying my experience is different. The OP will have to decide how he deals with that uncertainty.

And I notice that your gravel bike, at much lower pressure than most ride their road bikes, lost about 2% per day.

Lol, but did you accept all the confirmations from others of my claims in that thread? Not at first, but after the 3-4 people agreed with me, you started backing down from the “I’m just asking questions!” stance.

Actually it turns out I lied. The last time I rode my gravel bike before Monday was June 23, so right around 1.5% per day with 35mm Terra Speeds.

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