CK and triplet lacing -please clarify

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Estuche
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:21 am

by Estuche

Hello, I've been doing some reading about triplet lacing and the more I learn the more I fear I might be missing some important detail. For example, I read somewhere that left flange offset is key (37mm+ preferred). I also read that depending on the hub x1 is preferred over radial. And that different spoke types are suggested for the different flanges...

Anyhow, I see that the CK R45 is no bueno for triplet lacing based on the offset, but it seems like the CK classic hub is (38.5mm). To y'all expert lacers out there, am I missing something super important? How would you build a Classic CK 32h on a 24h rim (non-offset, all holes centered)? What spokes would you use for this porky but nice-sounding hub? I'm ~75kg weight-wise if that matters.

Thanks in advance,

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

You need enough stiffness sideways (laterally) and in the direction you're going (torsional).

With triplet you get maybe ~3/4 of the torsional stiffness of a 1:1 build with both sides crossed ~2x+. It's more than enough for most riders except for maybe sprinters.

On a 24h triplet you can cross the NDS side too if you like. That's the compromised side with fewer spokes so I think there's an argument for keeping that radial (to shorten spokes, and improve lateral stiffness).

The lateral stiffness (when built with proper geometry) can exceed that of a 1:1 wheel but I suspect not by much. It's easy to get less stiffness with hub and spoke choice.

Spokes are a bad place to try and save weight. You save very little by reducing each spoke with 1gr, and you change the feel of the wheel quite a lot.

The good news is that you have more spokes on the poor bracing angle DS side so you don't need to jump all the way to 6gr spokes unless you're building a top performance attack wheel. A 1:1 build is more likely to have heavier spokes on DS than a triplet. But then again a triplet is more likely to prefer heavier spokes on NDS.

by Weenie


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Estuche
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:21 am

by Estuche

Thank you for these great insights, would you say that using Sapim Race on the NDS (1x) and Sapim Laser on the DS (3x) would be a good combination?

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

It depends what you're after. A bling bling weekend casual ride wheel or a performance wheel.

No pro would ride that, but it would hold up fine for regular people. More than fine.

alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

3x for a 16h flange is normal yes.

1x for the 8h nds flange is possible yes. Some would argue that radial is the way to go here. Personally I did a similar build to what you're proposing not long ago. Here's a pic.

(1x:2x 18h)
Attachments
IMG_20200828_182931.jpg

Estuche
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:21 am

by Estuche

Nice! What spokes did you end up using? I'm wondering whether I should just use straight (non-butted) ti spokes instead..

by Weenie


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alcatraz
Posts: 4064
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:19 am

by alcatraz

These are just cnspoke mac aero424 spokes which are cx-ray equivalents, just like pillar 1420. They're all 4.2-4.3gr. I can get them for about 1usd each where I live. I don't obsess about brands. I've never broken a pillar 1420, or a cn424. They're fine. Even the tensionometer displays near equal conversion numbers for all three.

The wheels are not high performing, hehe. I'm just exploring wheelbuilding.

As I live in China I can experiment without investing much $$$. If I were building using Chris King hubs, in your shoes I'd probably use no less than cx-sprint (or other 5gr spokes) all around on the rear wheel. The hubs aren't superlight anyway and we're talking about less than a 24gr difference.

I've been tempted by titanium spokes myself but steel is real. It has extreme tensile properties suitable for this stuff. The spokes are so thin you know. I don't think titanium is a competitive alternative other than for display wheelsets. If you want something lighter look into carbon spokes. I feel that the market is about to make them available for custom builders in the next couple of years. ATM they're just available on branded wheels, at least where I am.

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